Iowas Decision

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micatala
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Iowas Decision

Post #1

Post by micatala »

As you may have seen, the Iowa Supreme Court has legalized gay marriage.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... S/90403010

The ruling is not up for appeal, and the legislative avenue for turning this back will be difficult and time consuming, with no possibility for a voter recall until 2012.


Questions for debate:

1) How much does this bolster the case in the U.S. agains gay marriage bans?

2) Is this a blip, or a signal of the tide turning?

A couple of snippets from the judges:
Fridays decision also addressed what it called the religious undercurrent propelling the same-sex marriage debate and said judges must remain outside the fray.

Our constitution does not permit any branch of government to resolve these types of religious debates and entrusts to courts the task of ensuring that government avoids them, Cady wrote.

This approach does not disrespect or denigrate the religious views of many Iowans who may strongly believe in marriage as a dual-gender union, but considers, as we must, only the constitutional rights of all people, as expressed by the promise of equal protection for all.

I will try to post a link to the full decision. As another question for debate, we could consider the quality of this decision. Is this "judicial activism run amok" or is this another "Brown versus Board of Ed" ruling in which the judiciary stands up for minority rights that the majority is unwilling to bestow?
" . . . the line separating good and evil passes, not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart . . . ." Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Post #31

Post by micatala »

Gay couples began getting marriage licenses and even getting married today.

http://www.twincities.com/nation/ci_12237585


The article notes at the end that Iowa has a history of being in front on social issues, including inter-racial marriage. I will take that as a good sign that the country as a whole will be moving in this direction.
" . . . the line separating good and evil passes, not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart . . . ." Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Fisherking

Post #32

Post by Fisherking »

micatala wrote:Gay couples began getting marriage licenses and even getting married today.

http://www.twincities.com/nation/ci_12237585


The article notes at the end that Iowa has a history of being in front on social issues, including inter-racial marriage. I will take that as a good sign that the country as a whole will be moving in this direction.
Would any of you gay marriage supporters see any problem with using the same logic with those that wish to marry their goat(bestiality)? Polygamy?
Object sexuality?
Objectum sexuality or Objektsexualitt in German,[1] is a pronounced sexual and or emotional desire towards particular inanimate objects. Those individuals with this expressed preference may feel strong feelings of arousal, attraction, love and commitment to certain items or structures of their fixation. For some, sexual or even close emotional relationships with humans are incomprehensible. The term objectum-sexuality was coined in the 1970s by a woman named Eija-Riitta Eklf Berliner-Mauer from Liden, Sweden, who was married to the Berlin Wall.[2] The term OS is often used in lieu of objectum-sexual.[3] Objectum-sexual individuals also believe in animism, or the belief that objects have souls, intelligence, feelings, and are able to communicate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectum_sexual
What if someone wants to marry the picnic table in your local park? American caught having sex with picnic table

Why stop at gay marriage?

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Post #33

Post by Goat »

Fisherking wrote:
micatala wrote:Gay couples began getting marriage licenses and even getting married today.

http://www.twincities.com/nation/ci_12237585


The article notes at the end that Iowa has a history of being in front on social issues, including inter-racial marriage. I will take that as a good sign that the country as a whole will be moving in this direction.
Would any of you gay marriage supporters see any problem with using the same logic with those that wish to marry their goat(bestiality)? Polygamy?
Object sexuality?
Objectum sexuality or Objektsexualitt in German,[1] is a pronounced sexual and or emotional desire towards particular inanimate objects. Those individuals with this expressed preference may feel strong feelings of arousal, attraction, love and commitment to certain items or structures of their fixation. For some, sexual or even close emotional relationships with humans are incomprehensible. The term objectum-sexuality was coined in the 1970s by a woman named Eija-Riitta Eklf Berliner-Mauer from Liden, Sweden, who was married to the Berlin Wall.[2] The term OS is often used in lieu of objectum-sexual.[3] Objectum-sexual individuals also believe in animism, or the belief that objects have souls, intelligence, feelings, and are able to communicate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectum_sexual
What if someone wants to marry the picnic table in your local park? American caught having sex with picnic table

Why stop at gay marriage?
Objects and goats (btw, I resent your specific comment.. mocking my handle like that) generally are not consenting adults. That's just a red herring, and your entire argument is, well frankly immature and illogical. As for polygamy, if it is between consenting adults, and not like the force cultlike behavior of the FLDS, why not?
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Post #34

Post by JoeyKnothead »

goat wrote:
Fisherking wrote:
micatala wrote:Gay couples began getting marriage licenses and even getting married today.

http://www.twincities.com/nation/ci_12237585


The article notes at the end that Iowa has a history of being in front on social issues, including inter-racial marriage. I will take that as a good sign that the country as a whole will be moving in this direction.
Would any of you gay marriage supporters see any problem with using the same logic with those that wish to marry their goat(bestiality)? Polygamy?
Object sexuality?
Objectum sexuality or Objektsexualitt in German,[1] is a pronounced sexual and or emotional desire towards particular inanimate objects. Those individuals with this expressed preference may feel strong feelings of arousal, attraction, love and commitment to certain items or structures of their fixation. For some, sexual or even close emotional relationships with humans are incomprehensible. The term objectum-sexuality was coined in the 1970s by a woman named Eija-Riitta Eklf Berliner-Mauer from Liden, Sweden, who was married to the Berlin Wall.[2] The term OS is often used in lieu of objectum-sexual.[3] Objectum-sexual individuals also believe in animism, or the belief that objects have souls, intelligence, feelings, and are able to communicate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectum_sexual
What if someone wants to marry the picnic table in your local park? American caught having sex with picnic table

Why stop at gay marriage?
Objects and goats (btw, I resent your specific comment.. mocking my handle like that) generally are not consenting adults. That's just a red herring, and your entire argument is, well frankly immature and illogical. As for polygamy, if it is between consenting adults, and not like the force cultlike behavior of the FLDS, why not?
Count me with goat here, trying to equate consenting adult acts with bestiality is nothing but an emotional ploy. As to polygamy, I see nothing wrong with it as long as it is between fully informed, consenting adults who've not been brainwashed, or otherwise "trained" to accept such practices.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Fisherking

Post #35

Post by Fisherking »

Why stop at gay marriage, polygamy, or bestiality? I'm sure there are many consenting adult pets available. Who's to say the park bench does not consent?
Last edited by Fisherking on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #36

Post by Goat »

Fisherking wrote:Why stop at gay marriage?
Good question. What particular issue?

Is it between consenting adults?
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Post #37

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Fisherking wrote:Why stop at gay marriage?
Your point?

It has been offered above that consenting adults should (and I claim already) have the right to marry those other consenting adults they seek to wed. Your concern about folks marrying red herrings is mitigated when we require consent from both parties before marriage occurs.

(edit for clarity)
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

Fisherking

Post #38

Post by Fisherking »

Why stop at gay marriage, polygamy, or bestiality? I'm sure there are many consenting adult pets available. Who's to say the park bench does not consent?

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Post #39

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Fisherking wrote:Why stop at gay marriage, polygamy, or bestiality? I'm sure there are many consenting adult pets available. Who's to say the park bench does not consent?
Are you really gonna stick with this line of argument?

I suppose when some theists are taught that donkeys can talk it is a 'logical' progression to then think benches can.
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Post #40

Post by Goat »

Fisherking wrote:Why stop at gay marriage, polygamy, or bestiality? I'm sure there are many consenting adult pets available. Who's to say the park bench does not consent?
This has to be the saddest attempt at rationalization I have seen. Legally, a consenting adult is someone who can sign a contract.

I have yet to see a pet, or a park bench be able to sign a contract.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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