Will Christians be protected from Gay social goals?

[Mere_Christian]

Once gay marriage is legalized in most states and forced on those that will not legalize it by the power of Democrat majority in Congress, how will Christians be protected from Gay Activists desiring to force Gay Culture and gay sex on every aspect of Christian life?

[Mere_Christian]

Mere_Christian,

I have asked kindly and repeatedly that you retract the claim that I referred to someone as a "hater and 'phobe'".

You are unwilling to do so.

I will not debate a liar.

Didn't I already say I was sorry?

Oh well.

Bye. I don't like debating stale, re-hashed positions anyway.



Hey, by the way, this "personal" attack of your's on "me", are the Mods cool with it? They sure don't seem to be when one of us Christians get "personal."

See me in hand cuffs below my username?

[JoeyKnothead]

Mere_Christian,

I have asked kindly and repeatedly that you retract the claim that I referred to someone as a "hater and 'phobe'".

You are unwilling to do so.

I will not debate a liar.

Didn't I already say I was sorry?

Oh well.

Bye. I don't like debating stale, re-hashed positions anyway.



Hey, by the way, this "personal" attack of your's on "me", are the Mods cool with it? They sure don't seem to be when one of us Christians get "personal."

See me in hand cuffs below my username?

Look on the top right of the offending post, and see a button used to report posts; now that you've offered an apology I can and must retract my claim about your honesty.

(edit for clarity)

[micatala]

Once gay marriage is legalized in most states and forced on those that will not legalize it by the power of Democrat majority in Congress, how will Christians be protected from Gay Activists desiring to force Gay Culture and gay sex on every aspect of Christian life?

Today in Iowa, gay couples began applying for marriage licenses and even getting married.


http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 163#236163

http://www.twincities.com/nation/ci_12237585



This acitivity certainly represents, it seems to me, fulfillment of a "gay social goal." It looks like gays have the same social goals as everybody else. Get married, maybe have a family, love each other, live as responsible citizens.

So far I don't recall seeing any bonafide reason for Christians to be afraid of these social goals. In fact, some of the gay people getting married ARE christian.

Can anyone provide actual examples of real harm to Christians? I'm not talking about hyperbolic scare tactics or dire predictions of future disaster. I am talking about legitimate claims that have some actual real evidence to support them.

In addition, we should consider if, should there be any documented isolated cases of Christians being exposed to inappropriate conduct (and I would not doubt that there are) is this a widespread phenomenon or just a few cranks?



So far, there seem to be no dire consequences arising in Iowa.

[Mere_Christian]

Once gay marriage is legalized in most states and forced on those that will not legalize it by the power of Democrat majority in Congress, how will Christians be protected from Gay Activists desiring to force Gay Culture and gay sex on every aspect of Christian life?

Today in Iowa, gay couples began applying for marriage licenses and even getting married.


http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 163#236163

http://www.twincities.com/nation/ci_12237585

How evil envelopes a civilization takes steps.

This acitivity certainly represents, it seems to me, fulfillment of a "gay social goal." It looks like gays have the same social goals as everybody else. Get married, maybe have a family, love each other, live as responsible citizens.

In a deviant lefstyle? And "have a family" is impossible, unless you have anotehr form of nature to offer the anatomy and biology of the human species. It takes warping the fact of family, or altering its reality.

So far I don't recall seeing any bonafide reason for Christians to be afraid of these social goals.

We are already being labeled and classified as hate crimes perpetrators for our legitimate stance against gay culture and behavior. I see The Left rapidly moving to direct litigation against us.

In fact, some of the gay people getting married ARE christian.

Not according to the Apostles. And not according to the form of marriage dictated by Jesus.

Can anyone provide actual examples of real harm to Christians?

Actual attacks by perps? I claim to havev escaped attempts to force me into gay sex. Also, our chjildren are targeted and recruited into support of gay ebhaviors, including joing in. I would say that is very harmful.

I'm not talking about hyperbolic scare tactics or dire predictions of future disaster.

History has shown us that permissiveness and hedonism are immorality and actual dangers. Gays have yet to be of real influence on all. They'll be flooding the schol systems with gay even more propaganda soon. Masachusetts and California testify to that.

I am talking about legitimate claims that have some actual real evidence to support them.

www.massresistence.org has detailed what the gay community is doing anmd wants to do more of. It's al about unfettered hedonism and debauchery.

In addition, we should consider if, should there be any documented isolated cases of Christians being exposed to inappropriate conduct (and I would not doubt that there are) is this a widespread phenomenon or just a few cranks?

Homosexuals have literally defined themselves BY their sex acts. The Folsom Stret Fair is coming to every neighborhod sooner or later. Nothing can stop gay culture "by law." So it's more than likely sooner.

So far, there seem to be no dire consequences arising in Iowa.

Rome didn't fall in a day.

[Mere_Christian]

Mere_Christian,

I have asked kindly and repeatedly that you retract the claim that I referred to someone as a "hater and 'phobe'".

You are unwilling to do so.

I will not debate a liar.

Didn't I already say I was sorry?

Oh well.

Bye. I don't like debating stale, re-hashed positions anyway.



Hey, by the way, this "personal" attack of your's on "me", are the Mods cool with it? They sure don't seem to be when one of us Christians get "personal."

See me in hand cuffs below my username?

Look on the top right of the offending post, and see a button used to report posts;

Why bother. You guys rule here.

now that you've offered an apology I can and must retract my claim about your honesty.

I don't have the time to search through all of your posts here. But I'm thinking that my assumption that a common atheist such as yourself is very much in line with the common anti-Christian leftist. That is to say labeling our anti-gay positions as bigotry and phobia. If you haven't done that, you must admit, mosyour clubmembers have and do.

I'm not at all comfortable with living as a person that needs the permision of ungodly people to give me rights to live one way or another.

Like my OP suggests, what will any of you do when GLBT's start attacking us and suing us to stop preaching against the perversion and debauchery that we see is the gay life and liefstyle?

Why is it that homosexuality even gets support from people that claim the mantle of logic and reason driving their perspectives? Permissiveness and hedonism are not morally sound choices. Perversion and aberrant behavior are hardly behaviors to be cheered.

I think I am appropriate in saying that you will suport them in their efforts to silence Christians. It's not exactly like "freethinkers" allow for dissent. Last time I checked, every one has to eb an atheist. Am I wrong?

Will you support Christiain preaching opposition to homosexuality? I know the founders of the USA did. It was the first right they wrote.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Page 5 Post 45:

Like my OP suggests, what will any of you do when GLBT's start attacking us and suing us to stop preaching against the perversion and debauchery that we see is the gay life and liefstyle?

Actually I think the biggest push in this area will be the younger generation of theists raising their voices against the policies of oppression expressed by so many churches.

Why is it that homosexuality even gets support from people that claim the mantle of logic and reason driving their perspectives?

I contend it is perfectly reasonable to expect all to enjoy equal rights. That statement alone just sounds so logical I can't think of any reason to consider it wrong.

Permissiveness and hedonism are not morally sound choices. Perversion and aberrant behavior are hardly behaviors to be cheered.

These are subjective opinions, devoid of any sound rationale, other than to claim some god ain't cool with it.

I think I am appropriate in saying that you will suport them in their efforts to silence Christians.

Not even close. Free speech is for all or it is for none. Hate speech (as subjective a label as any) should be met with a loud voice in opposition.

It's not exactly like "freethinkers" allow for dissent.

Plenty fair statement. All of us, Left, Right, Theist, Atheist, Skinny, Fat, Tall or short should speak out loudly against any attempt to silence free speech. I think we should also reach some accord as to what constitutes hate speech, and again speak loudly against it.

Last time I checked, every one has to eb an atheist. Am I wrong?

Eb? I think there's a typo there.

Will you support Christiain preaching opposition to homosexuality?

To a point. When such speech is meant to demean, insult, slander, or otherwise demonize a group then I will speak in opposition. This includes folks (myself included) who will do such to Christians/Christianity without offering evidence for such.

I know the founders of the USA did. It was the first right they wrote.

Though they didn't specifically mention speaking against homosexuals, it is a logical conclusion that such is to be allowed.
We must remember however that some speech is not protected - "fire" in a theater is a famous one; "kill" so and so; the list could go on forever.
There is a famous quote about pornograpy, "I can't define it, but I'll know it when I see it" or some such. IMO, this could also be said when such speech can be shown to have incited one or more to violence, again, for or against a given position.

[Mere_Christian]

From Page 5 Post 45:

Like my OP suggests, what will any of you do when GLBT's start attacking us and suing us to stop preaching against the perversion and debauchery that we see is the gay life and liefstyle?

Actually I think the biggest push in this area will be the younger generation of theists raising their voices against the policies of oppression expressed by so many churches.

That would be the Liberal and Progressive Churches preaching unfettered hedonism by neologism. The corruption found in selfishness and promiscuity finds its legs and voice from those that oppress others by manipulaitng them in insidious ways. Nothing as insidious as seducing young people into supporting licentiousness.

Kids are unfortunately having to be educated about deviant people wanting their young bodies for sport. And when shown how liberalism is actually just old fashioned hedonism (through neologism), they can avoid it more often.

Or as the Apostolic witness shows it thus: The corrupt gathering around themselves teachers to give their itching ears what they want to hear.

Amazing insight from the Biblical voice. We are now at the place in history where even the USA is selling itself out to the most corruptable kinds of people that the world has ever seen and calling it progressive thinking.

This is fascinating and fantastic to watch happen. And to be able to interact with Neo-Sodomites!!, truly enlightening.

Why is it that homosexuality even gets support from people that claim the mantle of logic and reason driving their perspectives?

I contend it is perfectly reasonable to expect all to enjoy equal rights. That statement alone just sounds so logical I can't think of any reason to consider it wrong.

Homosexuality is an aberrant behavior even to evolution. It literally relegates the infected individual to a life of worthlessness. Literally and scientifically. Unless of course human beings are "not just" animals.

Permissiveness and hedonism are not morally sound choices. Perversion and aberrant behavior are hardly behaviors to be cheered.

These are subjective opinions, devoid of any sound rationale, other than to claim some god ain't cool with it.

The Centers for Disease Control and the real fleshly health of the populace ain't cool with perversions and promiscuity and "anything goes" is being observed as immorality and vice. Interesting how that fits some God not being cool with it too.

I think I am appropriate in saying that you will suport them in their efforts to silence Christians.

Not even close. Free speech is for all or it is for none. Hate speech (as subjective a label as any) should be met with a loud voice in opposition.

I have no doubt that further exceptions will be made to silence the Christian voice. Current pop cculture and politics make my perspective extremely valid.

It's not exactly like "freethinkers" allow for dissent.

Plenty fair statement. All of us, Left, Right, Theist, Atheist, Skinny, Fat, Tall or short should speak out loudly against any attempt to silence free speech. I think we should also reach some accord as to what constitutes hate speech, and again speak loudly against it.

Being "anti" homosexuality is not a bad thing. In "fact" evolution is very anti-homosexuality. Or rather it assigns the infected with a life going no where. Again, literally. In preaching against homosexuals and homosexuality the speaker is supported by observable science. Hopefully the current fad of labeling anti-Gay actions as hate will be done away with by the scientific community.

Last time I checked, every one has to be an atheist. Am I wrong?

Eb? I think there's a typo there.

Freethinker = atheist? I'm wrong?

Not free thinker mind you, but "freethinker."

Will you support Christiain preaching opposition to homosexuality?

To a point. When such speech is meant to demean, insult, slander, or otherwise demonize a group then I will speak in opposition.

Opposing gay culture demonize is very appropriate for Christian honesty. Insult and slander only becoming demening to liberal and progressive political aims.

This includes folks (myself included) who will do such to Christians/Christianity without offering evidence for such.

Something . . . has gay sex elevated to a cool civil right, instead of disgusting reprobate behavior. As a Christian and a free thinker, I see evil driving the proliferation of immorality by altered per neologism as easily seen as supernatural in scope. How any truly thinking person can equate gay behavior with normality defies naturalism. Yet, when Christians oppose lasciviousness on purely logical grounds, we are still labeled as ignorant haters judging the world through an ancient mythology. My biological book from school is still current.

I know the founders of the USA did. It was the first right they wrote.

Though they didn't specifically mention speaking against homosexuals, it is a logical conclusion that such is to be allowed.

Logically then, there is expectation that we can drive out the popularity of gay culture in the marketplace of ideas ONCE AGAIN in a society gone mad.

We must remember however that some speech is not protected - "fire" in a theater is a famous one; "kill" so and so; the list could go on forever.

CHILDREN ARE BEING SEDUCED BY SEXUAL DEGENERATES.

That's an observable fact.

There is a famous quote about pornograpy, "I can't define it, but I'll know it when I see it" or some such.

From a National Geographic bare breasted woman to gaping holes and internet porn addiction . . . to sex slavery, child porn to gay sex being a parade for all to see . . . how lascivious licentiousness is an observable fact of corruption and lethality. Yet sir, it is the supposedly, self-proclaimed enlightened educated class, that supports and encourages sexuality to be a civil rights classification.

IMO, this could also be said when such speech can be shown to have incited one or more to violence, again, for or against a given position.

IMO Pornography has incited, no, no, caused (or rather, been the cause of) more violence against people than anything the religions have ever done, including Islam.

[micatala]

Like my OP suggests, what will any of you do when GLBT's start attacking us and suing us to stop preaching against the perversion and debauchery that we see is the gay life and liefstyle?

I support freedom of religion, including freedom of churches to preach the doctrine of their choosing.

I support freedom of gays to pursue their constitutional rights. As long as churches do not seek to persecute gays, they should be in no danger of losing any rights or priviledges.

Actually I think the biggest push in this area will be the younger generation of theists raising their voices against the policies of oppression expressed by so many churches.

That would be the Liberal and Progressive Churches preaching unfettered hedonism by neologism. The corruption found in selfishness and promiscuity finds its legs and voice from those that oppress others by manipulaitng them in insidious ways. Nothing as insidious as seducing young people into supporting licentiousness.

You are making very sweeping and unjustified generalizations.

Would two people choosing to get married and have sex be considered "unfettered hedonism and promiscuity?" If it isnt considered such for heterosexuals, it should not be for homosexuals either.


I challenge you to provide actual evidence, and not unsubstantiated opinion, that liberal and progressive churches preach unfettered hedonism, whether by neologism or any other means.

The problem is you equate homosexuality with a whole list of other behaviors without any thought to the actual reality.

Kids are unfortunately having to be educated about deviant people wanting their young bodies for sport. And when shown how liberalism is actually just old fashioned hedonism (through neologism), they can avoid it more often.

We should protect children from sexual predators. In my view, we do have an over-sexualized society and need to educate young people about dealing with this society. This is only very tangentially related to "gay social goals" which you haven't really elucidated in any clear manner.

I am not sure how indoctrinating young children into redefining words or accepting old prejudices is going to help.

Why is it that homosexuality even gets support from people that claim the mantle of logic and reason driving their perspectives?

I contend it is perfectly reasonable to expect all to enjoy equal rights. That statement alone just sounds so logical I can't think of any reason to consider it wrong.

Homosexuality is an aberrant behavior even to evolution. It literally relegates the infected individual to a life of worthlessness. Literally and scientifically. Unless of course human beings are "not just" animals.

More unsubstantiated opinion. We all understand you consider homosexuality aberrant. What is lacking is any coherent or logical reason for this.

Permissiveness and hedonism are not morally sound choices. Perversion and aberrant behavior are hardly behaviors to be cheered.

These are subjective opinions, devoid of any sound rationale, other than to claim some god ain't cool with it.

The Centers for Disease Control and the real fleshly health of the populace ain't cool with perversions and promiscuity and "anything goes" is being observed as immorality and vice. Interesting how that fits some God not being cool with it too.

Promiscuity does not equal homosexuality.

Promiscuity can result in disease. This occurs most often in heterosexuals. I am all for supporting reasonable and effective measures to reduce promiscuity.

Again, this has little or nothing to do with allowing gays the same freedoms heterosexuals enjoy, in particular marriage. If you want to reduce promiscuity, why do you oppose gay marriage?

If we restricted heterosexual marriage or made it much more difficult for two people to get married, do you think this would reduce or increase promiscuity among heterosexuals??

Something . . . has gay sex elevated to a cool civil right, instead of disgusting reprobate behavior. As a Christian and a free thinker, I see evil driving the proliferation of immorality by altered per neologism as easily seen as supernatural in scope. How any truly thinking person can equate gay behavior with normality defies naturalism. Yet, when Christians oppose lasciviousness on purely logical grounds, we are still labeled as ignorant haters judging the world through an ancient mythology. My biological book from school is still current.

Science does not determine morals.

In addition, given that homosexuality occurs naturally in many species, including humans, it can hardly be said to be somehow against science.

We must remember however that some speech is not protected - "fire" in a theater is a famous one; "kill" so and so; the list could go on forever.

CHILDREN ARE BEING SEDUCED BY SEXUAL DEGENERATES.

That's an observable fact.

Then why don't you oppose sexual predation of children instead of making these illogical connections of everything evil to homosexuality?

Two gay adults getting married has nothing to do with sexual predators. It seems you have convinced yourself through your own hyperbole or self-indoctrination that allowing gay rights equates to promiscuity, hedonism, pormography, sexual predation, etc. I doubt that anyone who does not already harbor anti-gay attitudes would be convinced by your arguments.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Page 5 Post 45:

Actually I think the biggest push in this area will be the younger generation of theists raising their voices against the policies of oppression expressed by so many churches.

That would be the Liberal and Progressive Churches preaching unfettered hedonism by neologism.

Actually I'm referring to those young folks who are rejecting the Church's call to discriminate against folks. While not the best source, I offer:
AlterNet Blog - Young Rejecting Christianity as Homophobic

Kids are unfortunately having to be educated about deviant people wanting their young bodies for sport.

Oh please.

Or as the Apostolic witness shows it thus: The corrupt gathering around themselves teachers to give their itching ears what they want to hear.

I've heard the same said about churches. The fact of the matter is that homosexuals are finding more and more acceptance in society. That you consider them as "hedonists and licentious" is a subjective opinion on your part.

Amazing insight from the Biblical voice. We are now at the place in history where even the USA is selling itself out to the most corruptable kinds of people that the world has ever seen and calling it progressive thinking.

I agree, far too many preachers are involved in politics.

Homosexuality is an aberrant behavior even to evolution. It literally relegates the infected individual to a life of worthlessness. Literally and scientifically. Unless of course human beings are "not just" animals.

A life of worthlessness? Really?

It is sad to know so many think this way.

As above, this mode of thinking is being rejected by more and more people. I offer as evidence here the ongoing push to recognize homosexuals through marriage, and other anti-discrimination laws.

The Centers for Disease Control and the real fleshly health of the populace ain't cool with perversions and promiscuity and "anything goes" is being observed as immorality and vice. Interesting how that fits some God not being cool with it too.

Can you prove a god is not cool with it? What extra-biblical evidence is there for this claim?

I have no doubt that further exceptions will be made to silence the Christian voice. Current pop cculture and politics make my perspective extremely valid.

It also validates the perspective that all humans are deserving of equal rights and respect.

Being "anti" homosexuality is not a bad thing.

I'm an "anti" in regards to some man asking me to dance. I would contend however that discriminating based solely on sexual preference is "anti" in a bad way.

In "fact" evolution is very anti-homosexuality.

The fact there are so many homosexuals puts the lie to that statement.

Or rather it assigns the infected with a life going no where.

That's the second time you've used the term infected when referring to homosexuals.

I contend such language is an emotional ploy devoid of any real meaning.

I notice the Bible prefers to insult folks it disagrees with. Is insulting those you disagree with part of your religious training?

In preaching against homosexuals and homosexuality the speaker is supported by observable science.

Yet you offer no science to support your claims.

Hopefully the current fad of labeling anti-Gay actions as hate will be done away with by the scientific community.

How is it not hate to discriminate against otherwise law abiding citizens?

Last time I checked, every one has to be an atheist. Am I wrong?

Eb? I think there's a typo there.

Freethinker = atheist? I'm wrong?
Not free thinker mind you, but "freethinker."

OH, "be an atheist". I honestly was confused when I asked that.

I contend folks must "be" what their bodies and senses tell them to be.

Opposing gay culture demonize is very appropriate for Christian honesty. Insult and slander only becoming demening to liberal and progressive political aims.

As noted above, it does seem the church and many of its adherents are quite versed at the tactics of demonization, insult, and slander.
When one's sacred book is so full of such, it is only logical some of its supporters would do the same.

Something . . . has gay sex elevated to a cool civil right, instead of disgusting reprobate behavior.

"Disgusting reprobate behavior". See, the demonizing, insults, and slander seem ingrained in some religious adherents.

Your opinion is noted. Personally I consider what acts folks do in their own bedrooms to be none of my business, nor for me to judge.

As a Christian and a free thinker, I see evil driving the proliferation of immorality by altered per neologism as easily seen as supernatural in scope.

Easily seen as supernatural?

Can you offer empirical, testable, extra-biblical data to support that claim?

How any truly thinking person can equate gay behavior with normality defies naturalism.

I can see the "homosexuality is not normal" angle, but only from my heterosexual perspective.

What I see are two consenting adults who want to have sex. As long as some dude ain't asking me to participate, I don't care what others do in the privacy of their own homes.

Yet, when Christians oppose lasciviousness on purely logical grounds, we are still labeled as ignorant haters judging the world through an ancient mythology.

When folks offer such terms as "infected (with homosexuality)", or "disgusting reprobate behavior", or many of the other emotionally charged terms that have been used, is it no wonder folks come to this conclusion?

You can't catch flies with vinegar.

My biological book from school is still current.

Calling your biology book "biological" indicates a lack of understanding about biology, or books, or both.

Logically then, there is expectation that we can drive out the popularity of gay culture in the marketplace of ideas ONCE AGAIN in a society gone mad.

How's that working out for ya?

I would think the fact that homosexuals are more vocal and "in your face" than ever indicates such a strategy is not working.

CHILDREN ARE BEING SEDUCED BY SEXUAL DEGENERATES.

That's an observable fact.

And so many churches act proactively to cover up these priests' misdeeds.

I hardly see the homosexual "movement" as advocating pedophilia.

From a National Geographic bare breasted woman to gaping holes and internet porn addiction . . . to sex slavery, child porn to gay sex being a parade for all to see . . . how lascivious licentiousness is an observable fact of corruption and lethality.

LOL I would think this is exactly the kind of language that is causing the Christian anti-homosexual message to be dismissed.

Yet sir, it is the supposedly, self-proclaimed enlightened educated class, that supports and encourages sexuality to be a civil rights classification.

Add this language as well.

It is somewhat enlightening to think folks are rejecting so much of the vitriol religion throws out.

IMO Pornography has incited, no, no, caused (or rather, been the cause of) more violence against people than anything the religions have ever done, including Islam.

LOL

And you wonder why your message is being ignored in the public sector?

[micatala]

A couple of passages from the blog joey posted should be highlighted on the thread.

Some of the young adults' disdain for Christianity is the result of another new wrinkle that was nowhere on the scene a decade ago. The study found that 91% of non-Christians in America -- joined by 80% of the their peers in the pews -- now believe that Christianity is "anti-homosexual." (Gee. I can't imagine where they got that idea.) And no, they don't mean that in a good, God-fearing, General-JC-Christian sort of way. In the Barna summary, Kinnaman says, "Non-Christians and Christians explained that beyond their recognition that Christians oppose homosexuality, they believe that Christians show excessive contempt and unloving attitudes towards gays and lesbians. One of the most frequent criticisms of young Christians was that they believe the church has made homosexuality a "bigger sin" than anything else. Moreover, they claim that the church has not helped them apply the biblical teaching on homosexuality to their friendships with gays and lesbians."

Note the bolding. Does some of this sound like what we read here on the forum??

Roughly a quarter of both the Christians and non-Christians in the under-30 group also mentioned -- without being prompted -- that "Christianity has changed from what it used to be," and that it "no longer looks like Jesus." Their sheer frustration level over how far the modern Christianity had deviated from its roots took Kinnaman by surprise:

In our interviews, we kept encountering young people - both those inside the church and outside of it - who said that something was broken in the present-day expression of Christianity. Their perceptions about Christianity were not always accurate, but what surprised me was not only the severity of their frustration with Christians, but also how frequently young born again Christians expressed some of the very same comments as young non-Christians."

And, to top it all off, Kinnaman found that the American population as a whole is on a long-term trendline that's moving the country away from Christianity. "This is not a passing fad wherein young people will become 'more Christian' as they grow up," the Barna report states. "While Christianity remains the typical experience and most common faith in America, a fundamental recalibration is occurring within the spiritual allegiance of America's upcoming generations." This trendline points to a far more diverse -- and possibly more secular -- nation in the decades ahead:

I have been saying for a while that the strident and dogmatic positions (on homosexuality but also evolution, abortion, etc.) taken by many conservative Christians is serving in effect as reverse evangelism, driving people away from faith.

Here we have some actual evidence that this is indeed the case.




Who would want to go to a church where a lot of the people, maybe even the pastor, act like Pharisees?