Christian Reasons to Support Gay Rights

[micatala]

I offer this thread as a Christian who supports gay rights as an admittedly forward challenge to my brothers and sisters in Christ.

In Acts Ch. 14 and 15, Luke describes James and the other Apostles discussions which led them to exempt Gentiles from well over 99% of the Law of Moses. The main reason they did so was to avoid putting an excessive burden on Gentiles. Implicit in their decision was the issue that expecting everyone to follow these traditional rules, rules that many saw as outdated, would be a drag on the new movement.

Today, we see polls like this one that indicate many young people leaving the church or the faith because of the negative attitude displayed by many religious people towards gays and lesbians.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/2 ... ign=buffer


1) Would it not make sense for Christians to lay aside anti-gay rhetoric, including quoting of Biblical verses that are claimed to condemn homosexuality, if for no other reason than it is counter-productive to evangelism?

2) Does not Jesus' own ministry, and the actions of the Apostles as described in Acts 15 give ample precedent for laying aside Biblical verses that seem to allude to homosexuality?


I will note that Christianity has by and large already set aside many precepts now seen to be archaic, including the idea that women should never speak in church, and that we should simply accept any and all governments as instituted by God and worthy of our obedience. The Declaration of Independence, in particular, repudiates this notion, outlined by Paul in his letters.

I will note that Jesus is quoted in the gospels as explicitly laying aside aspects of the law, and that he was criticized by many of his fellow believers, especially those who were arguably most religious, for doing so.

I will point out that the faith of those conservative believers rather quickly became a small minority as compared to Christianity.


It really comes down to this:

3) Is non-acceptance of homosexuality so central to Christianity that Christians should cling to traditional notions against homosexuality, or can we lay those aside as tangential to the central message of the gospel?

[Goat]

YahDough scribed

Sorry pal. Homosexual behavior is sin that is acknowledged in the New Covenant as well. God's grace is not a license to go against the Holy Ghost Spirit of Truth.

Show me again where Jesus declares his new covenant and where he condemns homosexuals as a part of it. And direct me to the where the new covenant itemizes which of the original 613 commandments - although fulfilled - are still applicable, as clearly the one about stoning disobedient children, and the one about wearing clothes with different fabrics, and the one about beards, and the one about planting different crops together - are found nowhere in the NT.

How can a 'rule for living' be 'full filled'. I don't understand that. I can see a large number of them being obsolete, since they specifically apply to the Temple, and the temple is no more, but 'full filled'.. nah.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 61 by Goat]

Is the law that commands an abortion of a baby conceived from adultery count as part of the new covenant?

[Strider324]

YahDough scribed

Sorry pal. Homosexual behavior is sin that is acknowledged in the New Covenant as well. God's grace is not a license to go against the Holy Ghost Spirit of Truth.

Show me again where Jesus declares his new covenant and where he condemns homosexuals as a part of it. And direct me to the where the new covenant itemizes which of the original 613 commandments - although fulfilled - are still applicable, as clearly the one about stoning disobedient children, and the one about wearing clothes with different fabrics, and the one about beards, and the one about planting different crops together - are found nowhere in the NT.

I can't discuss this further with you for two reasons.

1. I would have to get personal with you and preach about repentance and receiving the Holy Ghost. I don't think you would want that, and it would also break forum rules.

2. I am warned by this scripture teaching from Jesus:

Mt:7:6: Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

I'm pretty sure that answering a direct question by pointing out the specific verse(s) that answer the question does not require you to 'get personal', so your tapdancing here is strange.

You could have just said you have no clue where Jesus condemns homosexuality because he never did, and that you have no clue which of the 613 OT commandments are applicable to christians, because you don't know.

[micatala]

[Replying to post 53 by micatala]
You have spent a lot of time and words trying to defend a life-style that is condemned by both the OT and NT teachings.

And you have spent a lot of posts avoiding the inconsistencies in your own position, and addressing the Biblical support for my position.

I acknowledge that the Bible contains verses that condemn homosexual acts.

So what. You really should have nothing to say about the verses unless you are willing to live by all the other verses in that very same book.

Have you followed the law and stoned any adulterers?
Are you wearing any clothes containing more than one kind of cloth?
Have you seen to it that all of your male children are circumcised?
Are you following all of the various festivals spelled out in the law?


Now, you are free to follow or not follow any of these as you see fit. But you are being highly inconsistent in insisting that other follow this particular rule you care about if you do not follow every jot and tittle of the rest of the law.

Do you or do you not?

Professing Christians can join the ranks of homosexuals who think it is God's will that they are what they are. I will not be one of them.

And in that, I would have no argument with you.

I acknowledge your right in the Lord to follow your own conscience regarding your understanding of Scripture, and your own CHristian practice.

If you are willing to do the same for others, then that addresses the main concern I have about your position.

[YahDough]

[Replying to post 53 by micatala]
You have spent a lot of time and words trying to defend a life-style that is condemned by both the OT and NT teachings.

I acknowledge that the Bible contains verses that condemn homosexual acts.

So what. You really should have nothing to say about the verses unless you are willing to live by all the other verses in that very same book.

I try to live my life as the Holy Ghost teaches me. That includes avoiding sex sins, not promoting them through legislation.

1Cor:6:18: Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Now, you are free to follow or not follow any of these as you see fit.

Why thank you. I try to follow the teachings of the Holy Ghost that came in the name of Jesus Christ.. How about you?.

But you are being highly inconsistent in insisting that other follow this particular rule you care about if you do not follow every jot and tittle of the rest of the law.

Do you or do you not?

I do not! I don't insist on anything. I proclaim the truth. You can accept it, reject it, or debate it.

[Nickman]

I try to live my life as the Holy Ghost teaches me. That includes avoiding sex sins, not promoting them through legislation.

1Cor:6:18: Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Your holy ghost is your scriptures, as is self evident. You just reiterate what you read in the bible and when those passages come back to you in your everyday life, you accept that as your holy ghost. It is no different from "but momma said."

Why thank you. I try to follow the teachings of the Holy Ghost that came in the name of Jesus Christ.. How about you?

Your holy ghost again is just your recollection of bible verses. Weird how the holy ghost only brings up bible verses and nothing new.

[YahDough]

Your holy ghost is your scriptures, as is self evident. You just reiterate what you read in the bible and when those passages come back to you in your everyday life, you accept that as your holy ghost. It is no different from "but momma said."

Who's your "momma" Nickman? Didn't you leave Christ for some new "momma"?

Your holy ghost again is just your recollection of bible verses. Weird how the holy ghost only brings up bible verses and nothing new.

He also teaches how to understand them and apply them.
Is this the same Nickman who once claimed he had the Holy Ghost? Are you now denying it?

[Nickman]

I try to live my life as the Holy Ghost teaches me. That includes avoiding sex sins, not promoting them through legislation.

1Cor:6:18: Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Your holy ghost is your scriptures, as is self evident. You just reiterate what you read in the bible and when those passages come back to you in your everyday life, you accept that as your holy ghost. It is no different from "but momma said."

Who's your "momma" Nickman? Didn't you leave Christ for some new "momma"?

quote]Your holy ghost again is just your recollection of bible verses. Weird how the holy ghost only brings up bible verses and nothing new.

Is this the same Nickman who once claimed he had the Holy Ghost?

I did once have the holy ghost, which was just my ability to recollect the verses I read for decades. Anytime something disagreed with scripture, "ding ding," "this is the holy ghost, this situation disagrees with the scriptures," "abort mission." That is all that the holy ghost is. It is the same as me seeing a bad decision and recollecting something that dad said and realizing that this could be bad. In the Christian scenario, it is the holy ghost since it came from Ephesian 5:3. Not from you as a person. You are just regurgitating the same thing that a primitive culture said thousands of years ago. That is all that the holy ghost is. In the same way that what momma said is also gospel. These teachings continue into adulthood.

[YahDough]

I did once have the holy ghost, which was just my ability to recollect the verses I read for decades. Anytime something disagreed with scripture, "ding ding," "this is the holy ghost, this situation disagrees with the scriptures," "abort mission." That is all that the holy ghost is. It is the same as me seeing a bad decision and recollecting something that dad said and realizing that this could be bad. In the Christian scenario, it is the holy ghost since it came from Ephesian 5:3. Not from you as a person. You are just regurgitating the same thing that a primitive culture said thousands of years ago. That is all that the holy ghost is. In the same way that what momma said is also gospel. These teachings continue into adulthood.

You don't seem to have an accurate understanding of God's gift of the Holy Ghost.

It's not just about remembering Bible verses. It's about understanding truth.

Jn:14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

[Nickman]

I did once have the holy ghost, which was just my ability to recollect the verses I read for decades. Anytime something disagreed with scripture, "ding ding," "this is the holy ghost, this situation disagrees with the scriptures," "abort mission." That is all that the holy ghost is. It is the same as me seeing a bad decision and recollecting something that dad said and realizing that this could be bad. In the Christian scenario, it is the holy ghost since it came from Ephesian 5:3. Not from you as a person. You are just regurgitating the same thing that a primitive culture said thousands of years ago. That is all that the holy ghost is. In the same way that what momma said is also gospel. These teachings continue into adulthood.

You don't seem to have an accurate understanding of God's gift of the Holy Ghost.

It's not just about remembering Bible verses. It's about understanding truth.

Jn:14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Your post says otherwise as you recall a bible verse. The fact that you posted a verse and the fact that the verse says "whatsoever I have said unto you" is evidence that you get your holy ghost from scripture, and scripture says so. Where did you get "whatsoever I said unto you?" Scripture of course.