Will Christians be protected from Gay social goals?

[Mere_Christian]

Once gay marriage is legalized in most states and forced on those that will not legalize it by the power of Democrat majority in Congress, how will Christians be protected from Gay Activists desiring to force Gay Culture and gay sex on every aspect of Christian life?

[East of Eden]

To make this perfectly clear: I see no moral difference between declaring that gays routinely recruit and debauch children and declaring that Jews routinely murder them and drink their blood.

What do you think the Catholic Church scandals are about? They are a homosexual problem (not a pedophile one)with young boys as victims.

The tragedy in all this is that the fact real change in sexual orientation is possible is stiffled by the gay lobby. See:

GAYS CAN CHANGE. REPARATIVE THERAPY WORKS

An Exclusive Interview with Dr. Joseph Nicolosi

By David W. Virtue in London
www.virtueonline.org
4/27/2009

At a two-day Sex and the City Conference near Westminster Abbey, I had an opportunity to hear and see first-hand the work of reparative therapist Dr. Joseph Nicolosi as well as listen to the distinguished psychiatrist and physicist, Dr. Jeffrey Satinover. Both men believe that men and women can overcome unwanted same-sex attractions and that the scientific evidence is on their side. They believe that the whole gay issue has been so heavily politicized from the APA down to street outrage that is almost impossible to get a fair hearing for those who voluntarily choose to abandon the homosexual lifestyle.

I spoke with Dr. Nicolosi, a California therapist who employs seven therapists who deal exclusively in sexual addictions and same sex attractions. He heads an organization called NARTH - the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality. NARTH is a professional, scientific organization that offers hope to those who struggle with unwanted homosexuality. As an organization, they disseminate educational information, conduct and collect scientific research, promote effective therapeutic treatment, and provide referrals to those who seek their assistance. NARTH upholds the rights of individuals with unwanted homosexual attraction to receive effective psychological care and the right of professionals to offer that care.

I spoke at length with Dr. Nicolosi about the issues and problems he faces.

VOL: What is the central social issue?

Nicolosi: It is quite amazing how to be gay and/or pro gay is to be anti-intellectual. Intellectually, it implies an enquiring mind as to causation and the unspoken taboo is never to ask why a person is homosexual. A true intellectual inquiry always addresses causation. Once you ask why, you open it up to causation. It is amazing to me as a psychologist how my profession will spend thousands of hours and dollars asking the most minute mundane and petty questions and never ask why is this person Homosexual. How dare you ask?

VOL: Well, is there a gay gene?

Nicolosi: After 35 years of investigation, they still have not discovered the Gay gene. After 36 years since the APA dropped its diagnosis of Homosexuality and during that period of time, no credible child developmental model has emerged, to explain the homosexual condition without traumatizing the child. In other words, that fact remains that if you traumatize a child in a particular way you will create a homosexual condition. If you do not traumatize a child, he will be heterosexual. If you do not traumatize a child in a particular way, he will be heterosexual. The nature of that trauma is an early attachment break during the bonding phase with the father.

VOL: What have you seen take shape over the last quarter century?

Nicolosi: I have been doing this work for 25 years and I have seen an interesting shift in the clients who come to our clinic. We used to see the case majority of clients in their late 20s and early 30s. Today about 40% of our clients are teenagers, thanks to the pro-gay indoctrination of our educational and entertainment sources.

Gay porn on the Internet and gay chat lines have pushed at risk adolescence into experimentation and consequent sexual arousal regarding homoerotic images. The bad news is that more teenagers are claiming themselves to be gay or "bi". The good news is that responsible parents are getting their teens into therapy sooner. 50% of these teenagers are motivated to change and another 50% are not.

VOL: Is "once gay always gay" true?

Nicolosi: A central cornerstone of gay propaganda is "once gay always gay". It is amazing how the gay agenda has successfully convinced most people that one is ether gay or straight, determined of course by the mythological gay gene.

What is particularly shocking for me is that many church leaders actually believe that God created two kinds of people - homosexual and heterosexual. We believe that all people are heterosexual, but that some heterosexuals have a homosexual problem.

VOL: Is there a predisposition to homosexuality?

Nicolosi: We have been conceding the possibility of temperamental pre-disposition, usually described as timid, shy, non-aggressive, artistic and introverted. We can debate that assumption. Since as we believe the homosexual condition begins with an intense but insecure attachment to the mother, we attribute that to temperament. It may in fact be a consequence of a fragile attachment to a secure relationship with the mother.

John Bowlby, the great pioneer in childhood attachment, described the child who had an insecure attachment to his mother as being timid shy, introverted and he wasn't even talking about homosexuality. It is from the insecure relationship with the mother that the boy is unprepared to bond with the typically distant detached emotionally aloof and/or hostile father.

VOL: What happened in 1973 when the APA said homosexuality was no longer a disordered behavior?

Nicolosi: It is amazing to think in one day in 1973, 100 years of child studies in psychoanalytic literature was completely thrown out and homosexuality was pronounced "normal".

The three great pioneers of psychoanalysis, Freud, Yung and Adler all saw homosexuality as disordered and the entire development of psychoanalytic research continued until one day in 1973.

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, "It is the gene the dare not speak its name". No one is supposed to ask causation. The consequence to our profession is an intimidating research environment in which clinicians and researchers can no longer explore causation of a condition that many find distressful.

VOL: Do men and women come to you voluntarily?

Nicolosi: Absolutely.

VOL: So where does the queer opposition's understanding come from and why do they hate the possibility of change, if someone voluntarily knocks on your door and says, "help me"?

Nicolosi: Supposedly, they are coming in because of their "unresolved internalized homophobia." The only acceptable treatment, therefore, must be not to give the client what he is asking for, but to give the client precisely what he is not asking for.

The justification for denying the client's autonomy and self- determination is the arrogant assumption that "we know better what's good for you than you do". We will tell you what your problem is, which is to learn to enjoy gay sex. So drop your inhibitions drop your archaic religious beliefs, forget your morality or ethic and join the gay parade.

VOL: Who are the "we?"

Nicolosi: The "we" is not science; the "we" are the gay activists who have a monopoly on public policies disseminated through the mental health associations.

VOL: There seems to be a coerciveness about the gay agenda, that it is no longer an issue of free choice.

Nicolosi: True. It is not even respecting human dignity. It is a violation of freedom of choice. The client seeking help to develop his heterosexual potential to diminish what he finds distressful in his life must be abandoned. His dream for a wife, marriage, children, white picket fence, and a traditional lifestyle must be discarded because gay activism knows better. They are happy being gay so you must be too.

VOL: You have said the Great Lie in homosexuality is "once gay always gay". Can you elaborate?

Nicolosi: Central to the gay agenda and its determined goal to have complete homosexual acceptance as normal and natural, is the belief that certain people are just born gay. Gay activists are very familiar with many opinion surveys, which show consistently that if people believe gays are born that way and therefore have no choice, there will be greater tolerance and acceptance. But if you introduce the possibility of choice, then there is less tolerance. So every time a man stands up and says 'I was once homosexual and am no longer' that strikes at the heart of the gay agenda.

I believe that the gay rights movement has gained sufficient success in popular acceptance and the acquisition of rights and civil liberties that they no longer need to feel threatened by ex gay testimonies. I believe that the gay community is now sufficiently accepted by the popular culture that they can now afford to allow individuals to transition out of homosexuality without the need to disparage a former homosexual's life story.

VOL: In your practice over 25 years, what sort of success have you experienced and what about failure?

Nicolosi: I can say that the most important determinant in therapeutic success is motivation. If the client is highly motivated, barring additional psychological problems, he will experience significant diminishment in his same sex attractions. There are individuals who experience no change, so success cannot be guaranteed for everyone, but I can tell you that over the past 25 years as a clinical director supervising seven therapists at a clinic which treats about 135 ongoing cases a week, we have developed our techniques and therapeutic interventions such that we can bring about greater change in a shorter period of time. All things being equal, we now expect the client to experience significant change in two or three months.

VOL: Are they cured?

Nicolosi: This is not to say he or she is completely "cured" of homosexuality and the process may take many years, perhaps a lifetime, but he will acquire skills and self understanding to have his homosexual temptations become less and less until they become insignificant. One man described it as being finally and occasionally like a gnat buzzing around his ear.

VOL: Have you ever experienced clients who completely got over their homosexuality?

Nicolosi: Absolutely. Yes. I am working with a 63 year old man who has been struggling with homosexuality all his life. Six months in therapy with me, he has no homosexual attractions and no homosexual temptations at all and he now is complaining that his life is boring because so much of his life was taken up with gay porn and gay fantasies. By the way, we did it all on SKYPE. He is based in Sydney, Australia.

VOL: What are the ratios of success?

Nicolosi: I used to say one-third no change, one-third significant improvement and one-third treatment success. It is getting to be more are successfully shedding their unwanted same sex attractions. I see the numbers for complete improvement. For many who claim not to be completely "cured", it is less and less till it is little more than a gnat.

VOL: Tell me about the third that fail?

Nicolosi: That third consists of teenagers dragged in by parents who don't want to be there. Husbands dragged in by their wives or individuals sent by their pastors and priests who don't want to be there. This returns us to motivation, which is essential.

Another segment of the homosexual population who may fail but who are motivated have additional psychological issues that impede their treatment success.

VOL: Such as?

Nicolosi: Addictions, low impulse control, narcissistic personality disorder, inability to self reflect and clinical depression, to name some.

VOL: A well known American evangelical leader recently came out of the closet. You have undoubtedly read about him. He later said (within four months that he had been cured). What is your diagnosis of him?

Nicolosi: I would ask has he dealt with the underlying causes of his homosexuality. Uncompromising honesty with oneself is a necessary requirement to treatment success. If he has beaten it in four months, he should write a book about how he did it. It would be an instant bestseller. I would buy a copy.

VOL: You talk about a number of great myths about homosexuality. The first is that 10% of the population is gay. Is that true?

Nicolosi: That was a lie promoted by Alfred Kinsey over 60 years ago and it has become the standard cry of gay activists and the standard claim of homosexual apologists. In fact, it is 1.5 percent to 2 percent. Kinsey himself had a personal interest in inflating the percentage because he himself was homosexual.

VOL: Once "gay always gay"?

Nicolosi: Not true. There is no gay gene. It is a myth. The cry is that the homosexual is normal in every other way except for his sexual preference. Not true, it is the opposite. There are deep-seated personality differences, which create the condition and in fact, homosexuality is only the tip of the iceberg, a mere symptom of a deeper personality conflict.

VOL: Are you seeing more ex-gay people?

Nicolosi: It is wonderful to see men and women in greater numbers standing up publicly and telling their story of overcoming unwanted same sex attractions. Ten years ago, we could not find one person who would go public. Today a young person struggling with such feelings can look to many models of individuals who preceded him. Today there are websites with numerous individuals telling their stories in front of a camera. At a recent concert in Italy, an Italian pop singer named Povia did a great song called "Luca was gay" introducing the ex gay character into the pop culture. It was a touching moment. You can see the video here. http://www.narth.com/videos/povia.html

VOL: What does this portend for the future?

Nicolosi: There is a great momentum building toward the recognition and respect for the man or woman desiring a heterosexual life.

VOL: Thank you Dr. Nicolosi.

If you would like to learn more about the work of NARTH and to get in touch with Dr. Nicolosi you can do so at this link: http://www.narth.com/
Dr Nicolosi has other articles on this site.

Dr. Nicolosi is the author of a new book "Shame and Attachment Loss: The Practical Work of Reparative Therapy"

[Goat]

To make this perfectly clear: I see no moral difference between declaring that gays routinely recruit and debauch children and declaring that Jews routinely murder them and drink their blood.

What do you think the Catholic Church scandals are about? They are a homosexual problem (not a pedophile one)with young boys as victims.

The tragedy in all this is that the fact real change in sexual orientation is possible is stiffled by the gay lobby. See:

GAYS CAN CHANGE. REPARATIVE THERAPY WORKS

An Exclusive Interview with Dr. Joseph Nicolosi

To counter that bigoted and prejudiced boook

A review from it.

http://math.ucsd.edu/~weinrich/NCLSWNRC.HTML

Thanks to Jeff Mallory for performing the data entry.
Copyright 1993 SSSS, Journal of Sex Research, Vol. 30, #3, August 1993, Book Reviews, pp. 291-295
Therapy Terminable and Interminable:
"Non-gay Homosexuals" Come Out of the Closet
Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality: A New Clinical Approach. By Joseph Nicolosi. Northvale, NJ: Jason Aronson Inc., 1991, 355 + xvii pages. Hardcover, $40.00.

Reviewed by James D. Weinrich, Ph.D., University of California, San Diego, Department of Psychiatry 0603-H, La Jolla, CA 92093-0603.

This is a precedent-setting book, but probably not in ways that the author would appreciate. It sets a milestone in the history of sexual orientation self-acceptance; after homosexuals and bisexuals, the latest out of the closet are "non-gay homosexuals" -- Nicolosi's term for men who are homosexually responsive but who reject the cultural assumptions of the gay world. As the latest in a long list of books which offer therapy to men who wish to change a homosexual orientation to heterosexual, it sets another precedent in that the author is apparently the first to admit that this change is not possible. It is important to understand why the "prochange" school has finally admitted this fact and why they believe that therapy is advisable nevertheless.

The first six chapters of the book ("Striving for Gender Identity") ground Nicolosi's reparative therapy program in this history of mental health views of homosexuality and set out his main theoretical point: male homosexuality emerges from a disturbance of the father-son bond in childhood. Although Nicolosi believes that only one type of homosexuality is caused in this way, it is the type that he believes is amenable to his treatment. He also criticizes other therapeutic approaches to homosexuality, including gay-affirmative psychotherapy and earlier "change" therapies. Absent from the book is a discussion of any effect Nicolosi's religious beliefs may have had on his convictions; he dedicated the book to the priest founding the homosexual ministry "Courage" and is the founder and clinical director of the Thomas Aquinas Psychological Clinic.

Nicolosi believes that the underlying homosexual attractions felt by non-gay homosexuals rarely, if ever, disappear. Thus, reparative therapy is aimed at reducing their salience, encouraging heterosexual contacts and eventual marriage and children, with celibacy the supported option for those who do not find their heterosexual attraction reaching levels that would allow sexual contacts with women.

In Chapter 3, Nicolosi makes his most important statement about change (p. 22):

In his final work, "Analysis: Terminable and Interminable," Freud concluded that analysis is essentially a lifetime process. This is true in the treatment of homosexuality, which -- like many other therapeutic issues such as alcoholism or self-esteem problems -- requires an ongoing growth process. Yet while there are no shortcuts to personal growth, how long it takes to reach a goal is not as important as the choice of direction. A sense of progress toward a committed value is what is important. The non-gay homosexual is on the road to unifying his sexuality with his masculine identity. That he can look back over the past months and see a realization of some of the goals to which he has committed -- this is what gives hope.

Sometimes the change his patients obtain is less than impressive (pp. 165-166):

Usually some homosexual feelings will persist or recur during certain times in the life cycle. Therefore, rather than "cure," we refer to the goal of "change".... As one married ex-gay man described it: "For many years I thought I was gay. I finally realized I was not a homosexual, but really a heterosexual man with a homosexual problem." ... "Now those homosexual fantasies are more like a gnat buzzing around my ear." Another man explained: "A problem that used to have a capital 'H' now has a small 'h'."

Nicolosi deserves credit for acknowledging that his theory is not applicable to all homosexual patients (e.g., those lacking a gender identity deficit: pp. 22, 95), although he nevertheless claims to have some insights about the nature of homosexuality (detailed below) which apply to all homosexual men.

The next seven chapters ("Related Problems") situate Nicolosi's approach within the context of related topics: childhood problems, relations with other family members, physiogenetic factors, personality, love relationships, sexuality, and gay liberation. In Chapter 7 ("Problems Emerging in Childhood"), he claims that the roots of homosexuality in boyhood emanate from defensive detachment from other boys and from fathers. This concept (credited to Mary Moberly) is indeed germane for some gay men, but Nicolosi jumps to the conclusion that this shows that homosexuality is pathological. If a boy has a defensive detachment from a father who is physically or verbally abusive, it would not surprise many psychotherapists to find that the boy, having been starved for appropriate male affection, has grown into a gay man who has eroticized older men -- men who will love them in the way they needed their father to do, with the addition of sex. But if a boy has a mother who is physically or verbally abusive, it would not surprise therapists if such boys grew into heterosexual men who are attracted to older women -- women who will similarly love them in both ways. Even if someone regards these outcomes as abnormal, what is the rationale for concluding that one man has a healthy sexual orientation and the other has an unhealthy one? Both arise from the same fundamental mechanism.

Chapter 9 ("Physiogenetic Factors") is particularly weak, weighing in at less than four pages of text. Here, as in several chapters, Nicolosi reviews an area of research and discusses prevalent controversies, but cites only papers which support his point of view or cites them in a way which radically distorts their meaning. Michael Ross, Anke Ehrhardt, Heino Meyer-Bahlburg, John Money, and Thomas Forde Hoult may all be surprised to see their views cited here on Nicolosi's side.

In at least one case, Nicolosi must (or ought to) have known about a study which directly contravenes his assertion that "physiology has no significant influence" on sexual orientation (p. 90). He does not cite the Kallmann (1952 a, b) or Heston and Shields (1968) twin studies, preferring to quote the book by Arno Karlen published more than 20 years ago. True, he wrote before the publication of the recent twin studies by Bailey and Pillard (1991; Bailey, Pillard, Neale & Agyei, 1993). But the predecessor of these twin studies (whose subjects were non-twin brothers and sisters -- Pillard & Weinrich, 1986) was available. This paper is not mentioned in the main text and is conspicuously absent in this chapter. Curiously, it is listed in Nicolosi's bibliography (p. 333).

In spite of his exclusions of evidence on a genetic basis of sexual orientation, Nicolosi takes pains to head off the argument that if something is genetically caused, then it is unchangeable. He points out that alcoholism has been shown to have a genetic basis and accurately notes that this does not make it impossible to resist with appropriate therapy. The obvious rebuttal is not given -- that alcoholism is reprehensible because it typically hurts people, whereas homosexual behavior need be no more or less likely to hurt people than heterosexual behavior is.

Chapter 11 ("Homosexual Love Relationships") exposes Nicolosi's penchant for stereotyping. He seems to be able to see only negative aspects of gay relationships (pp. 109-110):

Two men can never take in each other, in the full and open way. Not only is there a natural anatomical unsuitability, but an inherent psychological insufficiency as well.... Gay couplings are characteristically brief and very volatile, with much fighting, arguing, making-up again and continual disappointments.... Research ... reveals that [homosexual relationships] almost never possess the mature elements of quiet consistency, trust, mutual dependency, and sexual fidelity characteristic of highly functioning heterosexual marriages.

Nicolosi is describing patterns of emotional immaturity, not homosexuality per se. Denial is more likely to be used by the emotionally immature. Given that coming out is a process of renouncing denial, it is easy to understand why Nicolosi perceives such patterns, because he is treating clients with a fundamental homosexual orientation who want support as they continue to deny the importance of their orientation to their lives. But anyone with mature gay friends knows how biased Nicolosi's sample is.

This comes out repeatedly in this chapter. Nicolosi states that "the most volatile domestic relationships I have worked with have been those of male couples. There are typically complaints of intense ambivalence, violent conflicts, and sometimes physical injuries" (p. 118). This astonishing statement may be true in its literal sense that these are the most volatile relationships Nicolosi has seen -- but how representative a group does he see? How many homosexuals? (The dust jacket says "over 100.") How many heterosexuals? How many in daily life outside of therapy? Similarly bizarre statements abound: "I have never heard of a homosexual man having a physical altercation with his father" (p. 46), "Almost without exception, homosexual clients report an increase in preoccupying sexual fantasies when they have experienced a disappointment. They feel most out of control and likely to act out sexually when they are feeling weak, lonely, and generally down about themselves" (p. 103), "I do not believe that any man can ever be truly at peace in living out a homosexual orientation" (p. 149), and "Sarcasm is a common weapon with which homosexual men diminish both others and themselves" (p. 212). This ignorance is not bliss; it results in Nicolosi not offering his patients an option they deserve to have accurately described.

Nicolosi is close to a truth when he discusses the erotic interests of gay men who had poor fathering, but even here he stereotypes (p. 116):

Anna Freud describes cases in which the search for the "strong man" as a sexual partner represented a striving toward one's own lost masculinity. Secondary masculine sex attributes (hair, strength, roughness) were used as determinants of sexual object-choice because they represented what the patient himself lacked. ... The heterosexual, on the other hand, is not as psychologically dependent upon finding the feminine ideal for gratification, since he has no unconscious need to fulfill a deficit in original gender.

Does this imply that heterosexual men are often attracted not only to feminine women but also to masculine ones (with hair, strength, and roughness)? Does this imply that Playboy centerfolds (the feminine ideal) are less important in the heterosexual world than Honcho is in the gay world? Although this chapter is one of the few of the genre which do not ritually describe the homosexual world as one which narcissistically overemphasizes youth and femininity (although Nicolosi gets around to this stereotype in the next chapter, pp. 128-129, without realizing that he thus contradicts himself), I doubt that most gay men will be grateful for this forbearance (and please pardon my sarcasm).

Nicolosi is more interested in therapy than in scholarship -- a perfectly acceptable preference -- and this is evident throughout the book. There are numerous errors pertaining to the bibliography (misdated references, missing references, "Stuppe 1982" on p. 134 but "Suppe 1981" on p. 145) or pertaining to details of gay life (the Stonewall Club instead of the Stonewall Inn, p. 131). This interest is also evident in his curriculum vitae. Although the dust jacket states that Nicolosi "is the author of numerous professional articles," these consist (according to his curriculum vitae) of seven items on a variety of sexual and nonsexual topics published in The California Psychologist (1), The Priest (1), The Tidings (2; the official organ of the Diocese of Los Angeles and San Diego), The Alberta Report (1), and Human Development (2), none of which turned up in a search of three computerized academic databases. That search did turn up one additional publication by a J. Nicolosi (1991): a letter to the editor of Educational Leadership criticizing programs for gay students. He also working on a second book, to be published in September 1993. His featured radio and television appearances outnumber his publications by a ratio of 4.9 to 1.

Chapters 14 through 20 ("Psychotherapy") are clearly the ones in which Nicolosi has his heart. He describes the masculinity-focused theme of the therapy, how patients are encouraged to form male friendships and taught how to identify and develop their own masculine strengths -- so that they won't have to seek them erotically from other men. Individual and group psychotherapy are illustrated with session excerpts.

Although these transcripts reveal that Nicolosi is helping his clients come to terms with some important issues from their childhoods, several passages are disturbing. For example, in one session therapist and client discussed what kinds of friends are good ones for non-gay homosexuals to seek (p. 292):

Client: How about [seeking] a friend with the same [homosexual] problem?

Therapist: There's the possibility of it becoming sexual.

Client: That's the risk you take.

Therapist: But why go to that risky population?

Client: Why does the alcoholic join up with other alcoholics?

Note how this client brought up one of Nicolosi's favorite analogies (homosexuality and alcoholism) and turned it in his favor. At this point, the client changed the subject, and the therapist followed his lead.

In reparative therapy, Nicolosi believes that it is essential for a man to serve as the primary therapist, because the client needs a mature, masculine, heterosexual figure with whom to identify and (initially, at least) to react against (p. 179). The therapist acts also as mentor (p. 185), modeling an appropriate, nonsexual male friendship, which is eventually transferred to men outside of therapy. My jaw dropped as I read that Nicolosi considers heterosexual men to whom the client is sexually attracted to be the friendships with the highest "reparative value" -- the heterosexuality ensuring that no sexual contact will take place (p. 199). He also recommends sports to his clients, encouraging one to continue his golf, swimming, and tennis (p. 235), apparently unaware that these are perhaps the three sports which gay men enjoy the most. And he recommends that clients join a heterosexual gym "where there are no distractions" (p. 193), apparently unaware of the sexiness many gay men ascribe to heterosexual athletes.

One of the most disturbing aspects of this book is that Nicolosi never critically evaluates the heterosexual pathway his clients desire so much. To be fair, let me note that the problems which heterosexuals face are not the focus of the book, so he could perhaps be forgiven for not examining their lives and problems with as critical an eye as he has turned to gay life. But his view of heterosexual partnerships is just as stereotypically rosy as his view of homosexuals is dark. He makes passing reference to the problems that married people can encounter, but does not discuss how those problems might be faced in the context of a successfully treated client. When his success stories get married and have kids, for all we know, they just live happily ever after; I wonder how well he is preparing his clients for the reality of a wife and children.

This rosy view of heterosexuality comes out especially clearly when he opines that the difference between men and women are good things -- for example, that women's domesticity helps keep men's rampaging promiscuity in check. He implicitly assumes that heterosexual couplings will produce the most happiness. Although Nicolosi is hardly the first to assume that Man and Woman were designed for each other's happiness, whether this is true in any sense of the word "designed" is an open question. Models in modern evolutionary biology typically do not assume this, for example, and suggest that husbands and wives will be perpetually at each other's throats in certain circumstances (Diamond, 1993) -- a view closer to Thurber (and the coadaptation of predator and prey) than to Masters and Johnson. I do not insist that the biologists are right and Nicolosi wrong; I simply wish to point out that the assumptions Nicolosi makes are open to question. They short-change heterosexuals by failing to affirm the complexity of their lives and lead me to wonder if Nicolosi knows any more about heterosexuality than he does about homosexuality. We do learn from the preface that Nicolosi is married (p. xiv). I close with an excerpt from the group therapy transcripts, in which several clients express doubt over the progress of their therapy (pp. 304-305):

Marco: I always feel angry at this condition. Like I thought, "Godammit, this six months of therapy investment." I know I get really angry at the struggle when there seems to be no end to it, like it's happening again, happening again. There is no end to this thing.

Darin: I can relate to that. It's the homosexuality, the worrying about it -- sometimes even the not wanting to get rid of it! I mean, the excitement of when you see a guy, the whole fantasy -- all of that, as undesirable as it is -- there is still an exciting energy there.... There's excitement, there's a nice drama there that I don't want to let die. If I succeed in therapy, that excitement is going to go.... [A]nother thing that I'm afraid of -- how long are we going to be doing this?... Okay, I know that I'm making progress. I see it, but I think, in three or four years am I still going to be struggling like this?

The therapist did not answer this question directly (remember, he believes that progress is often the best that can be hoped for), but changed the subject and told the clients that they have a choice between feeling sorry for themselves or taking the chance to "be real" with the men they meet -- to tell male friends how they really feel, what's really going on in their lives. I agree that such men should choose honesty and being real. The essence of our disagreement is this: Nicolosi believes that this choice will reduce homosexual feelings, and I beg to differ.
References

* Bailey, J. M., & Pillard, R. C. (1991). A genetic study of male sexual orientation. Archives of General Psychiatry, 48, 1089-1096.
* Bailey, J. M., & Pillard, R. C., Neale, M. C., & Agyei, Y. A. (1993). Heritable factors influence sexual orientation in women. Archives of General Psychiatry, 50, 217-223.
* Diamond, J. (1993, May). What are men good for? Natural History, 102(5), 24, 26-29.
* Heston, L. L., & Shields, J. (1968). Homosexuality in twins: A family study and a registry study. Archives of General Psychiatry, 18, 149-160.
* Kallmann, F. J. (1952a). Comparative twin study on the genetic aspects of male homosexuality. Journal of Nervous and Mental Disorder, 115, 283-298.
* Kallmann, F. J. (1952b). Twin and sibship study of overt male homosexuality. American Journal of Human Genetics, 4, 136-146.
* Karlen, A. (1971). Sexuality and homosexuality: A new view (1st ed.). New York: W. W. Norton.
* Masters, W. H., & Johnson, V. E. (1979). Homosexuality in perspective. Boston: Little, Brown.
* Nicolosi, J. (1991). Programs for gay students criticized. Educational Leadership, 49(2), 91.
* Pillard, R. C., & Weinrich, J. D. (1986). Evidence of familial nature of male homosexuality. Archives of General Psychiatry, 43, 808-812.

[East of Eden]

Right to the namecalling, huh? Do you deny there can be a causative element in same-sex attraction, and that change is possible?

Funny how some say change therapy is good for pedophiles, but gays can never change.

[Goat]

Right to the namecalling, huh? Do you deny there can be a causative element in same-sex attraction, and that change is possible?

Funny how some say change therapy is good for pedophiles, but gays can never change.

Did you know that the suicide rate of people who go through reparative therapy is way high? Did you knjow that the retivisim is much much higher than the 'ex-gay' people report?

let's take the case of the founder of Exodus. John Paulk. He made the statement
. "I accepted Christ into my life and realized I could leave homosexuality. I learned that homosexuality was reversible. Through faith in Christ and counseling and support, over a four-year period, my homosexuality is greatly subsided." and just a few weeks later was photographed in a gay bar..

[Mere_Christian]

Right to the namecalling, huh? Do you deny there can be a causative element in same-sex attraction, and that change is possible?

Funny how some say change therapy is good for pedophiles, but gays can never change.

Pedophilia IS a sexual orientation.

Notice the vice grip of NOT allowing the free exchange of idea is rapidly defining The Left?

But in any regards, it is about CONDUCT and not orientation.

I want to rob banks, and I have always had this orientation within my feelings for as long as I can remember, but it is not in keeping with the conduct I would like to live by.

Ex-Gay is no different than being ex-unmarried.

[Mere_Christian]

Right to the namecalling, huh? Do you deny there can be a causative element in same-sex attraction, and that change is possible?

Funny how some say change therapy is good for pedophiles, but gays can never change.

Did you know that the suicide rate of people who go through reparative therapy is way high?

Suicide is the result of actions taken by the person committing suicide. Suicide is also high in the Gay Community. The canard of blaming anti-gay people for what suicide victims do is not in keeping with the what's going on in the mind of the person depressed enough to kill themself. Let's focus on getting them medications first.

Did you knjow that the retivisim is much much higher than the 'ex-gay' people report?

Do you know how many people become Christians and once again sin? I believe the recidivism rate is 100%. I've done the research.

let's take the case of the founder of Exodus. John Paulk.

He made the statement:

. "I accepted Christ into my life and realized I could leave homosexuality. I learned that homosexuality was reversible. Through faith in Christ and counseling and support, over a four-year period, my homosexuality is greatly subsided." and just a few weeks later was photographed in a gay bar..

The day after I became a Christian I commited adultery as soon as a gorgeous woman walked by me.

I did even worse after going to some bars a few years later.

The sin nature of the human being is a life long work in progress to eliminate.

I'm still going to use the word "Duh," when I get a PhD.

I'll bet five-bucks Jesus used it.

Probably in Aramiac it's "Duhim."

I'm not schooled in Aramaic, so I could be mistaken.

[kayky]

Funny how some say change therapy is good for pedophiles, but gays can never change.

Let me ask you an important question, East of Eden. If you decided you wanted to stop being heterosexual and become homosexual, do you think any amount of therapy could make same-sex attraction palatable for you?

By the way, research shows that most pedophiles cannot change. That's why we make them register for public safety.

[kayky]

I want to rob banks, and I have always had this orientation within my feelings for as long as I can remember, but it is not in keeping with the conduct I would like to live by.

Why do you desire to rob banks? I've never heard of such a compulsion.

[East of Eden]

Funny how some say change therapy is good for pedophiles, but gays can never change.

Let me ask you an important question, East of Eden. If you decided you wanted to stop being heterosexual and become homosexual, do you think any amount of therapy could make same-sex attraction palatable for you?

That is a skewed question. The therapy in my post was about helping people with an abnormal urge to get to 'normal'. This therapy is about as successful as any other disorder therapists treat people for. It won't work for people with no motivation to change. Religious belief can give people that motivation to leave this deadly lifestyle.

It is always possible to do the will of God.

[East of Eden]

I want to rob banks, and I have always had this orientation within my feelings for as long as I can remember, but it is not in keeping with the conduct I would like to live by.

Why do you desire to rob banks? I've never heard of such a compulsion.

You don't read the news?