What is ' consciousness ' ?

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Thomas123
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What is ' consciousness ' ?

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Post by Thomas123 »

This word appears to be at the centre of many discussions on this forum. It also appears to mean different things to different people and, therein lies the root of our miscommunication. What range and definement do you attribute to, ' consciousness ' ?

Is there an external consciousness in the world?. Can I tune into a shared consciousness. I am listening to Prime Minister's Question Time, ....is Boris tuned into a universal human consciousness as he delivers his address. Is his brain working ,simultaneously and in tandem with my own consciousness and with that of others?

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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #161

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to EarthScienceguy in post #160]
How could you call them bad examples? What are you basing that assessment on?
I'm basing it on reading your examples. You asked "but what is intelligence", and proceeded to list 4 bad things and associated them with what intelligence can provide.
Even rape and murder give the perpetrator pleasure otherwise he would not do it. Josef Mengele claimed to be a "scientist". Scientists can go down the same sick road as anyone else given the right circumstances.
What have these got to do with general intelligence? Mengele being a sadistic nutcase is just one guy gone off the rails. There are plenty of examples of intelligent people doing very bad things. The Unabomber (Ted Kaczynski) was a very good mathematician at one point. David Hilbert was a far better mathematician and never shipped bombs to people.
Social animals live in authoritarian social structures and will kill any animal that does not conform to the social structure. At least that is how my goats behave.
Maybe there is a reason for this ... disruption of the social structure may be a bad thing. We humans also imprison and kill other humans for not conforming to the social structure. Does this mean we are not intelligent, or that we are just intelligent animals who also kill people (and often for a host of other reasons having nothing to do with the social structure ... jealously, revenge, greed, war, etc.). Humans have a pretty bad historical record compared to other social animals when it comes to killing our fellow human beings ...despite our intelligence levels.
That is why I do not consider them to be conscious like humans are conscious. They simply act on instinct. Men act on something more than instinct and what about intelligence allows men to overcome instinct.
You're equating intelligence and consciousness again. My dog (and probably your goats) do not act purely on instinct and nothing else. Dogs can get mad, get happy, show empathy and many other behaviors that are not simply instinct. So can many other mammals and primates. All are conscious, but some are more intelligent than others.
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

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Post by brunumb »

DrNoGods wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:13 pm My dog (and probably your goats) do not act purely on instinct and nothing else. Dogs can get mad, get happy, show empathy and many other behaviors that are not simply instinct. So can many other mammals and primates. All are conscious, but some are more intelligent than others.
Many animals will bond for life and remain faithful to their partners, something that's not even all that prevalent in allegedly moral, religious human beings.
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

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Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Tcg wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:45 pm
EarthScienceguy wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:36 pm [Replying to Thomas123 in post #1]

So what is the difference between animal consciousness and human consciousness?
Given that humans are animals, this is like asking what's the difference between pizza and pizza.


Tcg
Humans can't be animals, only humans keep animals as pets.
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #164

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:56 pm
Tcg wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:45 pm
EarthScienceguy wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:36 pm [Replying to Thomas123 in post #1]

So what is the difference between animal consciousness and human consciousness?
Given that humans are animals, this is like asking what's the difference between pizza and pizza.


Tcg
Humans can't be animals, only humans keep animals as pets.
I'm not sure if you're serious, but if ya are, well how bout that.

All y'all humans not keeping pets, why are y'all such animals?
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

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Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Only humans keep pets and cook their food, it is unique to us.
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #166

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 11:53 am Only humans keep pets and cook their food, it is unique to us.
Lol

If that's your criteria then, I'll be honored to attend your Noble Prize ceremony.
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #167

Post by Tcg »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 11:53 am Only humans keep pets and cook their food, it is unique to us.
Only Peregrine Falcons can dive at speeds up to 240 m.p.h. It is unique to them. That doesn't stop them from being animals. I would guess we could compile quite a list of animals that have unique characteristics. Humans are but one among the many this would be true of.


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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #168

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

Tcg wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 12:34 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 11:53 am Only humans keep pets and cook their food, it is unique to us.
Only Peregrine Falcons can dive at speeds up to 240 m.p.h. It is unique to them. That doesn't stop them from being animals. I would guess we could compile quite a list of animals that have unique characteristics. Humans are but one among the many this would be true of.


Tcg
Lots of different birds dive, some almost as fast as the falcon. The fact is the characteristic of cooking and keeping pets is completely unknown in the animal kingdom, not a trace of anything like this outside of humans, no hint that a similar thing is evolving in any other kind of organism.

Anyway I find it sufficient justification to not regard humans as animals, the differences are just too great.
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #169

Post by Jose Fly »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:56 pm Humans can't be animals
Taxonomically, we are.
only humans keep animals as pets.
Never seen that as a criterion for "animal" before. I take it that's your own personal standard?
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Re: What is ' consciousness ' ?

Post #170

Post by brunumb »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 2:46 pm Anyway I find it sufficient justification to not regard humans as animals, the differences are just too great.
But the similarities outweigh the differences, by far.

As to the keeping of and cooking for pets criterion, thanks for the laugh. :lol:
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