An infinite point is a point that can never be reached, for there is always one more unit of time or space before you get there.
Therefore, an infinite future is a future which can never be reached. It is not an impossibility as it is not yet realized, that is, it has not yet come into existence.
An infinite past, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter. While an infinite past, like an infinite future, can never be reached, it is impossible because an event in an infinite past requires an infinite amount of time for its effects to reach the present, and an infinite amount of time is an amount of time that can never be realized.
Think of a star existing an infinite amount of distance away. Could its light ever reach us? Of course not.
Therefore, a present time dependant upon events which happened in an infinite past simply cannot exist, nor can they ever exist, for in order for them to exist an infinite amount of time must first pass.
Ergo, to propose a universe which has an infinite past is to propose a universe which cannot exist.
Ergo, because we know the universe does indeed exist, we also know the universe does not have an infinite past.
Infinite Past Time
Moderator: Moderators
Post #41
I think you present a strong argument that there must be a T=0. I have wondered myself how believers of the Big Bang hypothesis would reconcile, not just what exploded, but how could the march of time ever reach that singular moment if there were an infinity of moments beforehand.
I think this is the reason for the idea of a multiverse made up of pivoting branes in eleven dimensions. Every time they touch they say we get a big bang or a big crunch.
I think this is the reason for the idea of a multiverse made up of pivoting branes in eleven dimensions. Every time they touch they say we get a big bang or a big crunch.
- 100%atheist
- Prodigy
- Posts: 2601
- Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:27 pm
Post #42
Guys, what are you talking about? Infinity is not a number. period.pax wrote:It is also equal to a + (b - c) and (-c + a) + b.Bust Nak wrote:I double checked this time. I can put it there. Not that I need parentheses in the first place, just highlighting my substitution. The left most operation already have precedence in the first place.pax wrote:You can't put the parenthesis there either, Bust![]()
Well actually, addition have the property of associative.You cannot just introduce parentheses into the formula, as there is no justification for introducing parentheses into the formula. Adding parentheses is a means of simplifying a formula, and that formula is already as simplified as it can be.
That lets me move the + 1 around.
What I had wrong before hand was I place the brackets after an subtraction.
So you are saying a + b - c isn't equal to (a + b) - c?So, in all Christian charity, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume that you are really deficient in basic math skills.
It doesn't matter where you put the parentheses in that equation, the answer remains the same.
What does that mean?
Parentheses are superfluous to the equation.
Unless, of course, you want to play a little shell game.
Ok. So now you get to play my little shell game.
∞ - ∞ + 1 = 0 + 1
(∞ - ∞) + 1 = 0 + 1
0 + 1 = 0 + 1
1 = 1
Well, waddayaknow!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyways, I think you better stop there, Bust. Now I am really believing that your purpose here is to deceive, which is not a good thought for me to have, and not a good thing for you to do (if that is what you are trying to do).
Post #43
Then how can there be an infinite number of past events?100%atheist wrote:Guys, what are you talking about? Infinity is not a number. period.pax wrote:It is also equal to a + (b - c) and (-c + a) + b.Bust Nak wrote:I double checked this time. I can put it there. Not that I need parentheses in the first place, just highlighting my substitution. The left most operation already have precedence in the first place.pax wrote:You can't put the parenthesis there either, Bust![]()
Well actually, addition have the property of associative.You cannot just introduce parentheses into the formula, as there is no justification for introducing parentheses into the formula. Adding parentheses is a means of simplifying a formula, and that formula is already as simplified as it can be.
That lets me move the + 1 around.
What I had wrong before hand was I place the brackets after an subtraction.
So you are saying a + b - c isn't equal to (a + b) - c?So, in all Christian charity, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume that you are really deficient in basic math skills.
It doesn't matter where you put the parentheses in that equation, the answer remains the same.
What does that mean?
Parentheses are superfluous to the equation.
Unless, of course, you want to play a little shell game.
Ok. So now you get to play my little shell game.
∞ - ∞ + 1 = 0 + 1
(∞ - ∞) + 1 = 0 + 1
0 + 1 = 0 + 1
1 = 1
Well, waddayaknow!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyways, I think you better stop there, Bust. Now I am really believing that your purpose here is to deceive, which is not a good thought for me to have, and not a good thing for you to do (if that is what you are trying to do).
- 100%atheist
- Prodigy
- Posts: 2601
- Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:27 pm
Re: Infinite Past Time
Post #44Sorry, but your kind of arguments may possibly apply ONLY IF we assume that time is absolute. The problem is that we know that time is relative. => case dismissed.pax wrote:An infinite point is a point that can never be reached, for there is always one more unit of time or space before you get there.
Therefore, an infinite future is a future which can never be reached. It is not an impossibility as it is not yet realized, that is, it has not yet come into existence.
An infinite past, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter. While an infinite past, like an infinite future, can never be reached, it is impossible because an event in an infinite past requires an infinite amount of time for its effects to reach the present, and an infinite amount of time is an amount of time that can never be realized.
Think of a star existing an infinite amount of distance away. Could its light ever reach us? Of course not.
Therefore, a present time dependant upon events which happened in an infinite past simply cannot exist, nor can they ever exist, for in order for them to exist an infinite amount of time must first pass.
Ergo, to propose a universe which has an infinite past is to propose a universe which cannot exist.
Ergo, because we know the universe does indeed exist, we also know the universe does not have an infinite past.
- 100%atheist
- Prodigy
- Posts: 2601
- Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:27 pm
- 100%atheist
- Prodigy
- Posts: 2601
- Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:27 pm
Post #46
Got it. It is an expression inaccuracy. A better way to say would be 'infinity of past events'. There are many jargon expressions in math and science which can be confusing.pax wrote:Then how can there be an infinite number of past events?Guys, what are you talking about? Infinity is not a number. period.
Re: Infinite Past Time
Post #47Do the solar furnaces in which your atoms were born and spewed out into space still exist?100%atheist wrote:Sorry, but your kind of arguments may possibly apply ONLY IF we assume that time is absolute. The problem is that we know that time is relative. => case dismissed.pax wrote:An infinite point is a point that can never be reached, for there is always one more unit of time or space before you get there.
Therefore, an infinite future is a future which can never be reached. It is not an impossibility as it is not yet realized, that is, it has not yet come into existence.
An infinite past, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter. While an infinite past, like an infinite future, can never be reached, it is impossible because an event in an infinite past requires an infinite amount of time for its effects to reach the present, and an infinite amount of time is an amount of time that can never be realized.
Think of a star existing an infinite amount of distance away. Could its light ever reach us? Of course not.
Therefore, a present time dependant upon events which happened in an infinite past simply cannot exist, nor can they ever exist, for in order for them to exist an infinite amount of time must first pass.
Ergo, to propose a universe which has an infinite past is to propose a universe which cannot exist.
Ergo, because we know the universe does indeed exist, we also know the universe does not have an infinite past.
- 100%atheist
- Prodigy
- Posts: 2601
- Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:27 pm
Post #48
Wow, people you really need to try this one:pax wrote:Bust Nak wrote:No, let me break down the final steps some more:pax wrote:0 + 1 = 0 ????????????????????Do you see it now?Code: Select all
∞ - 0 = ∞ ∞ - 0 - ∞ + 0 = ∞ - ∞ + 0 - ∞ + 0 on both side, i.e move the ∞ to one side and 0 the other a) ∞ - ∞ = 0 ∞ - ∞ + 1 = 0 + 1 + 1 on both side ∞ - (∞ + 1) = 0 + 1 b) ∞ - ∞ = 1 substitute (∞ + 1) = ∞ 1 = 0 substitute a) and b)
This is too funny, Bust!
![]()
∞ - ∞ + 1 = 0 + 1
∞ - (∞ + 1) = 0 + 1
∞ - ∞ = 1
So, now, you use your little shell (parentheses) to slip the pea (1) out.
By what law of mathematics do you suddenly insert parenthesis where none are warranted?
If my old high school math teacher, Mr. Popkowski (may God grant him eternal rest) was here, he would beat you over the head with his pointer.
But, don't stop trying, Bust.
This is hilarious!
![]()
Again, I have to ask you: Were you really duped by this little shell game?
I sure hope this is not the way cosmologists do their math.
sin(x)/x at x->0
- 100%atheist
- Prodigy
- Posts: 2601
- Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:27 pm
Re: Infinite Past Time
Post #49Yes, I keep them in my garage.pax wrote:Do the solar furnaces in which your atoms were born and spewed out into space still exist?100%atheist wrote:Sorry, but your kind of arguments may possibly apply ONLY IF we assume that time is absolute. The problem is that we know that time is relative. => case dismissed.pax wrote:An infinite point is a point that can never be reached, for there is always one more unit of time or space before you get there.
Therefore, an infinite future is a future which can never be reached. It is not an impossibility as it is not yet realized, that is, it has not yet come into existence.
An infinite past, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter. While an infinite past, like an infinite future, can never be reached, it is impossible because an event in an infinite past requires an infinite amount of time for its effects to reach the present, and an infinite amount of time is an amount of time that can never be realized.
Think of a star existing an infinite amount of distance away. Could its light ever reach us? Of course not.
Therefore, a present time dependant upon events which happened in an infinite past simply cannot exist, nor can they ever exist, for in order for them to exist an infinite amount of time must first pass.
Ergo, to propose a universe which has an infinite past is to propose a universe which cannot exist.
Ergo, because we know the universe does indeed exist, we also know the universe does not have an infinite past.
PS: what are you talking about?
Re: Infinite Past Time
Post #50Well, those solar furnaces can't exist anymore because they don't have any atoms anymore because all their lighter atoms were turned into heavier atoms and then those heavy atoms were thrown out into space and now make up you and you exist. The atoms cannot exist simultaneously in you and in the solar furnace which produced them. Why not? If time is relative, then why cannot the atoms exist both in you and in the solar furnace simultaneously? Why can't I be at work and on the beach simultaneously?100%atheist wrote:Yes, I keep them in my garage.pax wrote:Do the solar furnaces in which your atoms were born and spewed out into space still exist?100%atheist wrote:Sorry, but your kind of arguments may possibly apply ONLY IF we assume that time is absolute. The problem is that we know that time is relative. => case dismissed.pax wrote:An infinite point is a point that can never be reached, for there is always one more unit of time or space before you get there.
Therefore, an infinite future is a future which can never be reached. It is not an impossibility as it is not yet realized, that is, it has not yet come into existence.
An infinite past, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter. While an infinite past, like an infinite future, can never be reached, it is impossible because an event in an infinite past requires an infinite amount of time for its effects to reach the present, and an infinite amount of time is an amount of time that can never be realized.
Think of a star existing an infinite amount of distance away. Could its light ever reach us? Of course not.
Therefore, a present time dependant upon events which happened in an infinite past simply cannot exist, nor can they ever exist, for in order for them to exist an infinite amount of time must first pass.
Ergo, to propose a universe which has an infinite past is to propose a universe which cannot exist.
Ergo, because we know the universe does indeed exist, we also know the universe does not have an infinite past.
PS: what are you talking about?