A 6 Day Creation

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 961 here:

There is now more evidence than ever before about 6-day creation.

For debate:

Please offer evidence for a literal six day creation of the Universe.

Please remember that in this section of the site the Bible is not considered authoritative.

[Jose Fly]

You can't understand and until God begins to open your mind you will not understand so stop asking over and over.

Q: What is this, huh?
In order for one to understand, believe that God exists, God needs to exist in order to open one minds and show God exists.
Q: Circular reasoning? Convoluted nonsensical presuppositional garbage?

When I was a teen and as it was quite clear that I wasn't a Christian, one of our youth pastors asked me why that was. I explained that from my POV, the faith made absolutely no sense at all. He basically said that if I just "opened my heart to God" the "holy spirit" would somehow make it all make sense. I had the same reaction as you.....I furrowed my brow and asked "So I have to believe it first, and then it will make sense?" He actually said yes. So I asked why should I do that with just Christianity? Why not believe Mormonism, Islam, or any other religion first and then see if it starts to make sense?

He just stared at me for a few seconds and said "But we have the truth", which prompted me to ask if he'd ever tried believing in another religion. He shook his head at me and walked away.

[JoeyKnothead]

You can't understand and until God begins to open your mind you will not understand so stop asking over and over.

Q: What is this, huh?
In order for one to understand, believe that God exists, God needs to exist in order to open one minds and show God exists.
Q: Circular reasoning? Convoluted nonsensical presuppositional garbage?

That is hilarious...

The one guy who so wants me to believe he exists, that I might shower him with loving, doting belief, well don't it beat all, he's done closed me my mind so shut, I can't.

This is theism... "You don't believe cause you're close minded, and God just ain't got him no tools to get him around that."

Dude can create an entire universe, just can't penetrate the human mind.

When you ain't got you no logic, I reckon insults look like gold.

[Sherlock Holmes]

You can't understand and until God begins to open your mind you will not understand so stop asking over and over.

Q: What is this, huh?
In order for one to understand, believe that God exists, God needs to exist in order to open one minds and show God exists.
Q: Circular reasoning? Convoluted nonsensical presuppositional garbage?

That is hilarious...

The one guy who so wants me to believe he exists, that I might shower him with loving, doting belief, well don't it beat all, he's done closed me my mind so shut, I can't.

This is theism... "You don't believe cause you're close minded, and God just ain't got him no tools to get him around that."

Dude can create an entire universe, just can't penetrate the human mind.

When you ain't got you no logic, I reckon insults look like gold.

We're all inherently closed minded, it takes an act of God to change us.

The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #41]

When I was a teen and as it was quite clear that I wasn't a Christian, one of our youth pastors asked me why that was. I explained that from my POV, the faith made absolutely no sense at all. He basically said that if I just "opened my heart to God" the "holy spirit" would somehow make it all make sense. I had the same reaction as you.....I furrowed my brow and asked "So I have to believe it first, and then it will make sense?" He actually said yes. So I asked why should I do that with just Christianity? Why not believe Mormonism, Islam, or any other religion first and then see if it starts to make sense?

Yea, I get it. You wanted your sin of choice whatever that might be. It will not make sense it will be a drive and desire to know Christ when the Holy Spirit convicts a person of their sin. The Holy Spirit has not convicted you of the sin in your life and He may never convict you of the sin in your life. But until that happens you cannot and you will not become a Chrisitan.

[brunumb]

Yea, I get it. You wanted your sin of choice whatever that might be. It will not make sense it will be a drive and desire to know Christ when the Holy Spirit convicts a person of their sin. The Holy Spirit has not convicted you of the sin in your life and He may never convict you of the sin in your life. But until that happens you cannot and you will not become a Chrisitan.

If you are a Christian the Holy Spirit has convicted you of your sin. If you are not a Christian the Holy Spirit has not convicted you of your sin. Neither of which can be demonstrated to be true so they amount to no more than worthless claims that somehow resonate only with believers. Then we have the old furphy of wanting to sin preventing the desire to know Christ. Again, where is the support for that? How about religious indoctrination from a very young age inculcating all that in the vulnerable minds of uncritical individuals. At least there is geographical evidence for that claim. But one needs to be willing to open their mind and closely scrutinise what they believe, why they believe and when they gained their beliefs in order to properly understand the unbeliever.

[JoeyKnothead]

We're all inherently closed minded, it takes an act of God to change us.

So you claim, while offering us no means to confirm you speak truth.

The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

Same here.

Notice how if we don't just up and believe the claimant, we're close minded and hostile.

Just more insults from our slanderer in chief. Not one effort put to showing these claims are truth.

[Jose Fly]

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #41]

When I was a teen and as it was quite clear that I wasn't a Christian, one of our youth pastors asked me why that was. I explained that from my POV, the faith made absolutely no sense at all. He basically said that if I just "opened my heart to God" the "holy spirit" would somehow make it all make sense. I had the same reaction as you.....I furrowed my brow and asked "So I have to believe it first, and then it will make sense?" He actually said yes. So I asked why should I do that with just Christianity? Why not believe Mormonism, Islam, or any other religion first and then see if it starts to make sense?

Yea, I get it. You wanted your sin of choice whatever that might be. It will not make sense it will be a drive and desire to know Christ when the Holy Spirit convicts a person of their sin. The Holy Spirit has not convicted you of the sin in your life and He may never convict you of the sin in your life. But until that happens you cannot and you will not become a Chrisitan.

Yeah, I've heard that same rote apologetic many times before....."you just don't want to give up your sins". My response is just as rote....what sins? What specifically am I doing? That's when the dodging usually begins.

Some of my IRL friends are Christians and a couple of them have made the same excuse when the topic of me not being Christian came up. But since these guys know me, my family, and my lifestyle very well my response is much more pointed. It's more like.....you guys know how I live, so what "sin" do you think I'm clinging to? They literally have no answer.

But this does serve to illustrate another reason why I've never been a Christian despite having grown up immersed in the faith....Christian apologetics are a joke.

[Tcg]

Yeah, I've heard that same rote apologetic many times before....."you just don't want to give up your sins".

It also fails in that there are plenty of Christians who clearly haven't given up their "sins." There are the high-profile cases like we've seen with Catholics, Southern Baptists, JWs, and others, but also less advertised cases any one who hangs around a church for very long will learn of. Giving up sins? When did that become a part of Christianity?


Tcg

[alexxcJRO]

You can't understand and until God begins to open your mind you will not understand so stop asking over and over.

Q: What is this, huh?
In order for one to understand, believe that God exists, God needs to exist in order to open one minds and show God exists.
Q: Circular reasoning? Convoluted nonsensical presuppositional garbage?

When I was a teen and as it was quite clear that I wasn't a Christian, one of our youth pastors asked me why that was. I explained that from my POV, the faith made absolutely no sense at all. He basically said that if I just "opened my heart to God" the "holy spirit" would somehow make it all make sense. I had the same reaction as you.....I furrowed my brow and asked "So I have to believe it first, and then it will make sense?" He actually said yes. So I asked why should I do that with just Christianity? Why not believe Mormonism, Islam, or any other religion first and then see if it starts to make sense?

He just stared at me for a few seconds and said "But we have the truth", which prompted me to ask if he'd ever tried believing in another religion. He shook his head at me and walked away.

You need to believe God exist in order to believe God exists. That is basically the crux of it all.
Yet I believed in God, was a protestant Christian and then become unconvinced. So that weak ass apology does not work in my case.
I debated my first pastor 1 year after becoming an atheist. It was the pastor from the church where I went.
My family made an intervention. Saving my soul from eternal damnation as they put it. They hoped the wise, knowledgeable pastor would reopen my eyes to Jesus. How wrong they were.
I went to meet the pastor super prepared. Pages and pages of printed information.
I spoke with the pastor ~2 hours.
I am very intense as a person. I can overwhelm a person when I converse with someone.
The poor pastor was all sweating, dogging and deflecting the whole time.
I bombarded him with deductive arguments concerning problem of (natural, gratuitous) evil; problem of genuine disbelief; problem of psychopathy; problem of confusion, contrariety; problem of hell; problem of heaven; the clear evil, malevolent Old Testament verses condoning intolerance, misogyny, rape, slavery, genocide. Bombarded him with evidence for evolution, old earth, old universe and against the Flood, Adam and Eve myth, Babylon myth, Exodus myth; scholarly work, tons of info in respect to the New Testament showing the gospels are just bogus 2000 year old testimonial based on oral traditions, rumors, hearsay.
After the two hours he said his head hurts and that we need to stop.
I could have argued for 24 straight. I was on fire.

[alexxcJRO]

We're all inherently closed minded, it takes an act of God to change us.

The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

You need to believe God exist in order to believe God exists.

Sir I was a genuine Protestant Christian. I prayed daily, went to Church, singed in Church, heard people speaking in tongues, had communion with Christ. Really believed. And then I become unconvinced and an atheist. I look back at those days and I giggle because of silliness of it all.
So that weak ass apology does not work for I was not close minded. It all started with watching a debate on Youtube between an atheist and a theist.
I went from YEC to OEC. Then from OEC to rejecting the Old Testament mostly. And then I gave up on the New Testament and Christianity after my knowledge concerning the gospels and aspects of our reality increased.
In the process as I was developing a skeptical, scientific way of thinking, a logical way of looking at things I gave up other beliefs too(ghosts, Strigois, the Greys, conspiracies and so one).
Shedding off all those beliefs was like a big awakening. Although reality was far less mysterious I suddenly felt I was more free. The creep from the sky was no longer watching my every move.
No more having the shackles of sin weighing me down, the fear of God and Hell. I was cured of the delusion that governed and influenced my entire life. I felt like being cured from a mental illness.