The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

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Post by Diogenes »

The proposition for debate is that when one takes the tales of Genesis literally, one becomes intellectually disabled, at least temporarily. Taking Genesis literally requires one to reject biology (which includes evolution) and other sciences in favor of 'magic.' Geology and radiometric dating have to be rejected since the Earth formed only about 6000 years ago, during the same week the Earth was made (in a single day).

Much of the debate in the topic of Science and Religion consists of theists who insist on a literal interpretation of Genesis rejecting basic science. Most of the resulting debates are not worth engaging in.
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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #671

Post by brunumb »

[Replying to dad1 in post #669]

Nothing in that rant equates to any evidence for creation or for God. Why should anyone believe in the biblical version of it? You keep ignoring the fact that science has nothing to say either way about your creation story. Trashing science without actually refuting anything does nothing for your case at all. So, where is your evidence?
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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #672

Post by dad1 »

brunumb wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:38 am
dad1 wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:22 am Not sure what you are 'debating' about then if you do not agree with the claims of science and make no effort to support them?
What specific claims of science are you challenging dad1?
All origin claims such as the big bang and the theory of evolution.

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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #673

Post by dad1 »

brunumb wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:44 am Nothing in that rant equates to any evidence for creation or for God.
Nothing you choose to admit or accept. Nothing in science confirms or denies it. Evidence is not limited to what so called science dictates. Neither need the beliefs of science be foisted onto evidences.
Why should anyone believe in the biblical version of it?
Because the bible checked out in a multitude of other ways, so we can believe it for what we cannot check out as well.
You keep ignoring the fact that science has nothing to say either way about your creation story.
Why would I not do so?
Trashing science without actually refuting anything does nothing for your case at all.
There is nothing from science to refute regarding Genesis.
So, where is your evidence?
Let's start with where the evidence is NOT! That is science. So, I use evidence like plate movements of the past, history, the fossil record etc. I also use evidence like Scripture! Since it is proven in so many ways, it counts as evidence also for what man cannot know on his own.

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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

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Post by JoeyKnothead »

dad1 wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:22 am
JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:47 pm Site rules indicate I'm not responsible for claims I don't make.
Not sure what you are 'debating' about then if you do not agree with the claims of science and make no effort to support them?
I'm debating claims you represent, by challenging those claims.

As to any claims that may be proposed by science, it's my contention I don't even need those claims in order to show you can't support your own claims to a scientifally acceptable standard, as you have yourself agreed.

So I'm left to ponder what it is you seek to debate.
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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #675

Post by dad1 »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:12 am I'm debating claims you represent, by challenging those claims.
I would challenge that claim! Here is on for you then, let's see your challenge. Science does not and cannot cover God or creation.
As to any claims that may be proposed by science, it's my contention I don't even need those claims in order to show you can't support your own claims to a scientifally acceptable standard, as you have yourself agreed.
There is no science that covers creation. The only science standard seems to be anything but God beliefs that are dressed up in a science dress.
So I'm left to ponder what it is you seek to debate.
Not sure what is left when science is KOed, and you appear unable to deal with it.

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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #676

Post by JoeyKnothead »

dad1 wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:18 am
JoeyKnothead wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:12 am I'm debating claims you represent, by challenging those claims.
I would challenge that claim! Here is on for you then, let's see your challenge. Science does not and cannot cover God or creation.
So trying to support such claims of gods existing, and gods creating, is a goofy thing to try to do in a science forum.
dad1 wrote:
JK wrote: As to any claims that may be proposed by science, it's my contention I don't even need those claims in order to show you can't support your own claims to a scientifally acceptable standard, as you have yourself agreed.
There is no science that covers creation.
I've also yet to find any truth that covers it. Can you put you any truth to creation claims?
dad1 wrote: The only science standard seems to be anything but God beliefs that are dressed up in a science dress.
That's a problem for those who seek to make unscientific claims in a science forum.
dad1 wrote:
JK wrote: So I'm left to ponder what it is you seek to debate.
Not sure what is left when science is KOed, and you appear unable to deal with it.
Lol. Science is far from KOed by your inability to support your unscientific claims.

If all you can do is continue to cry about how science can't help you support your claims, maybe it'd serve you well to reconsider those claims.
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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #677

Post by brunumb »

dad1 wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:51 am
brunumb wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:44 am Nothing in that rant equates to any evidence for creation or for God.
Nothing you choose to admit or accept. Nothing in science confirms or denies it. Evidence is not limited to what so called science dictates. Neither need the beliefs of science be foisted onto evidences.
No. There was literally nothing in that post that represented any evidence for creation or for God. You have made no case whatsoever for your position. All your ranting against what science has achieved is totally irrelevant.
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Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #678

Post by brunumb »

dad1 wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:45 am
brunumb wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:38 am
dad1 wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:22 am Not sure what you are 'debating' about then if you do not agree with the claims of science and make no effort to support them?
What specific claims of science are you challenging dad1?
All origin claims such as the big bang and the theory of evolution.
And yet you are at a complete loss when it comes to refuting any of it. You are not debating anything. You have presented no case whatsoever. Just repeating that science can't disprove creation is empty rhetoric. Prove creation is true. That burden is on you and so far you have failed.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #679

Post by otseng »

dad1 wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:07 pm Science is also to be believed or not but has presented it's beliefs in an insidious and dishonest and misleading way.
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Re: The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

Post #680

Post by dad1 »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:00 am So trying to support such claims of gods existing, and gods creating, is a goofy thing to try to do in a science forum.
Sometimes it is unavoidable when people of other beliefs, like so called science realize that science does not deal with creation and ask what OTHER evidences exist.
I've also yet to find any truth that covers it. Can you put you any truth to creation claims?
Truth has no meaning when used as a preference of beliefs. Science is in no position to know truths about God or creation. So if the word truth is used in science, it is a very relative term and about as meaningful as saying 'this is true inside the box'.
That's a problem for those who seek to make unscientific claims in a science forum.
No. Only for those pretending science is involved in anything to do with the spiritual, or that it could be. A proper use of the phrase unscientific claim, is a claim about something science can and does cover. For example, if I claimed that on earth gravity meant that if we fell off a skyscraper, we would only descend at a uniform speed of 3 mph, that would not be a scientific claim. It also would be wrong and 'unscientific'. If you claimed that there was a cockroach living 17 billion light years away on a snowball, that would a belief based claim. Even if you tried to say that snow could exist there according to science, or that a cockroach might survive for awhile on a snowball according to scientific evidence etc. That would not make it a scientific claim. If you claim there is no God or creation, that is not a scientific claim. If you say there is a God, that is not a scientific claim either. So anyone asking for evidence for or against God or creation could not be referring to evidence from a science that has no possible clue and no knowledge or power to test or observe etc.
Lol. Science is far from KOed by your inability to support your unscientific claims.
I agree. If I had such an inability (which I don't) that would not be what knocks science out of the ring. What KOs science is it's own inability and limits and scope to be able to fight in a ring with God.
If all you can do is continue to cry about how science can't help you support your claims
Science can make no claims about creation and if it did, it could not support them. Therefore when an OP claims that believing the record of God about creation of life and the world is somehow wrong and bad, that is unscientific!

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