What If...?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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theStudent
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What If...?

Post #1

Post by theStudent »

Currently, I am doing what was suggested by some on these forums.
I am researching information both for, and against evolution, and trust me - I am doing so objectively.
While I am still researching, I want to put this out, to hear the different views on it.

During my research I discovered that lately, just over the last decade or so, a lot of informations has been surfacing about fake fossils.
In fact it has now become common place for fossils sold at museums to be checked for genuineness.
I find this interesting.

Why now, is this happening?
Could it be that evidence as it always does, is now surfacing?

For example
Remember the dinosaur hoax - the one that was said to be put together using different bones?
It has recently been found out that it wasn't a hoax after all.
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/02/ ... ecies.html

That is quite interesting.

The fossils aren't the only things that were/are claimed to be fake.
There are the drawings, and pictures as well.
Right now, I am going through a very long document considered a case against some of Darwins picture illustrations.
But have you ever come across this one?

Pictures from the past powerfully shape current views of the world. In books, television programs, and websites, new images appear alongside others that have survived from decades ago. Among the most famous are drawings of embryos by the Darwinist Ernst Haeckel in which humans and other vertebrates begin identical, then diverge toward their adult forms. But these icons of evolution are notorious, too: soon after their publication in 1868, a colleague alleged fraud, and Haeckel’s many enemies have repeated the charge ever since. His embryos nevertheless became a textbook staple until, in 1997, a biologist accused him again, and creationist advocates of intelligent design forced his figures out. How could the most controversial pictures in the history of science have become some of the most widely seen?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Haeckel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haec ... eks4-6.jpg
English: The pictures illustrate Ernst Haeckel's biogenetic law. In the beginning embryos of different species look remarkable similar, later different characteristics develop. The images initiated controversies and charges of fraud.

All of this lends to a possibility.
Consdering the fact that fossils can be faked, we must accept the fact that Darwin, and other scientists could have lied.

My question here, isn't whether he did lie or not, but rather, Does this not place evolutionists in the same position as the Christians they claim are believing in fables?

Consider:
Christians accept the Bible, as the word of God.
Here are just a few facts about the Bible.
With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best-selling book of all time.
It has estimated annual sales of 100 million copies.
It has been a major influence on literature and history, especially in the West where the Gutenberg Bible was the first mass-printed book.
It was the first book ever printed using movable type.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

Archaeological findings of the Dead Sea Scrolls, also called the Qumran Caves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

The evidence is there however, that the book we hold in our hand today (the Bible), contains information written centuries ago.

Atheist call the book fables - the reason I have yet to find out.
Maybe one of the reasons is that they have not seen God, or seen him write any book - whatever.
So they claim that Christians' belief in them and what they present is blind faith, and belief in stories.

However, is this not the case with those who accept the theory of evolution, where all they have to go by, is what scientists claim to be evidence?

By the way...
No one, to this day have seen them recreate the theories.
Any data they give you on species, is usually what already existed (at least what I have come across so far).
As regards other claims, all we have are pictures, and claimed fossils, which could have been edited.

So evolutionists are really believing what men claim - without any substantial proof of their claim.
How is this different to believing a book?

And what if Darwin, and others lied?


I'm just interested in you different opinions and thoughts, on the above.
Here is a nice short video of someone's opinion. Reasonable too.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Re: What If...?

Post #721

Post by marakorpa »


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Re: What If...?

Post #722

Post by marakorpa »

[Replying to post 714 by Neatras]

I did not say that Chuck was real, I just told the 'researcher' what to look for as the croc and duck cross is a bit too imaginative, even for an evolutionist.

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ch

I will contest the carnivorous dinosaurs with clear evidence, but to start with imagine the size of these animals being carnivorous, they would eat themselves out in a very short time considering the amount of food they would require. Secondly, they were slow footed animals, that were not hunters. There was much more vegetation than animals to predate, and combining this aspect with creation, the vegetation on earth was created long before man was created, the need to keep the vegetation cropped would be an immense job, even if it was in a small area, like Eden.

It is a rather far fetched assumption to say that the number of pre-historic beasts you quote were all meat eaters. Imagine the amount of fossil evidence from carcases to be found over a long period of time, which doesn't happen anywhere in the world.

You agree that DNA needs protein, but then it makes the protein it needs, yes? What marvel of evolution could work that out BY CHANCE, What if? the DNA failed in its attempt to make protein, life would come to a sudden end. The second ridiculous thought would be that this process would have to be in the first life cell in the primordial slime of ancient fantasy, by chance.

You claim I do not believe scientists: This is a far too ambiguous statement to have any real meaning. If you assume I do not believe the scientists that make false claims, and are proved to be false, then you may be correct. However there are scientists that are on the other side of the fence that often shoot down the wishful thinking Evolution Scientists.

If evolution really did explain the origin of life, why is there so much charlatanism involved in its promotion: Give a graphic artist a small chip of bone, and a few instructions and he can draw a large, fierce mouthed, multi story beast, giving the eye placement and colour, the hair distribution and whatever else the scientific classroom requires. Then a big announcement is made about this new discovery around the time more funding is needed for 'research' , but later when it turns out the the scientists were mistaken and the chip of bone came from the Sunday roast that a dingo had chewed and buried near the research camp, a very small item in the newspaper states that there may have been some doubt on the Great discovery.

Other examples are well known and stem from some overly zealous scientist wanting to make a name for himself and concocting some 'find' that proves to be a fake.

Not only would you need to explain how the intricate structure of 40 trillion cells combining to make a human, and all those cells working in conjunction with each other, and how ones memory, consciousness, emotion,and thought evolved and not requiring any cells to do the tasks they do every second of the day, and why humans age at around about the same time, (Tell me about it) All these things, and more, need to be put plainly and truthfully before evolution can move from guess work to reality.

Note: Did you notice how some do not read posts correctly and make an assumption, then argue that assumption. Did I say that the Cambrian Explosion proved evolution?

If you think the Cambrian era is what proves evolution, you have a lot to learn. Clownboat
:tongue:

What is this talk about a duck and a croc mating, or sharing an egg nest?
You have shown that you need to source new places to get your information about evolution.


Same poster.

I have to say, I doubt that there is enough time to convince me that we arrived on this planet, and that this planet was made before we started to arrive (Thanks to good organization, not chance) and all the other terrestrial structure is aligned perfectly by chance, and that the habitat on arrival was just perfect for the establishment of a pool of slime that made all the life forms on this planet that all support the human race, just by chance. But go for you life, it may be interesting.

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Re: What If...?

Post #723

Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to post 719 by marakorpa]

Considering that most dinosaurs were likely mezotherms and meat packs a higher energy density than plants, they wouldn't need all that much food comparative to a similar sized herbivore. Elephants are similar in size to many the larger predatory dinosaurs and they get around pretty fast not sure what you mean by slow footed.

The simple fact of their teeth should indicate they couldn't eat plants though. Their skeletal structures are also designed for catching prey or scavenging not eating plants.
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Re: What If...?

Post #724

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 719 by marakorpa]
If evolution really did explain the origin of life
It doesn't. At all. Not that it fails to, but because evolution and the origin of life are two separate things.
See, this is the reason you're not convincing anyone here. You clearly do not know what you're talking about. Only people who do not understand anything about evolution think it has anything to do with explaining life's origin.
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Re: What If...?

Post #725

Post by marakorpa »

[Replying to post 720 by DanieltheDragon]

The teeth structure and the gigantic size does not make them predators. The size and long necks make them excellent tree loppers.

Saying "Pretty fast" is not a worthy statement. You mean faster than a Cheetah, or faster than a speeding bullet, how pretty is your fast.

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Re: What If...?

Post #726

Post by marakorpa »

[Replying to post 721 by rikuoamero]

So here is another version, romantic even. However, I am annoyed that you should consider yourself so well educated to say that I do not know what I am talking about. That is a direct insult.

I do know what I am talking about, it is just t hat I have no clue as to what you are talking about.

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Re: What If...?

Post #727

Post by marakorpa »

[Replying to post 714 by Neatras]

A Couple of things: I am educated, however I have a sense of humor and will not get into heated arguments with anyone...I was married for 28 years so I have ad my share already.

Statement by you: The diversity of life suddenly increased,

Cross out 'increased' and say the diversity of life suddenly appeared.

Statement by you: A decade ago creationists were denying that dinosaurs existed.

10 years ago, really, I heard about Dinosaurs when I went to school but didn't see too many as the graphic artists cost too much in those days.Maybe it was some of the flat earth folk.


Statement by you: You don't care what scientists have to say

Have you read any of the scientific reports from scientists that disagree with evolution. Scientists that are sometimes above the education standard of those pushing the evolution theor, and more able to research such a subject,

If you look at the line of "Scientists" that have "Proof" of evolution in any form they range from a large group of titled persons in all sorts of science disciplines and even then there is contention between the lot.

It is a bit like Christendom today, there are around 40,000 different religions claiming Christian truth and they all have some difference in interpretation, and this is in spite of the fact that there is a "Christian Workshop Manual" to refer to, not like evolution where the scientists seem to get some sort of reaction from their research and then claim "Success" only to be later relegated to the scrap heap.

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Re: What If...?

Post #728

Post by benchwarmer »

marakorpa wrote: [Replying to post 721 by rikuoamero]

So here is another version, romantic even. However, I am annoyed that you should consider yourself so well educated to say that I do not know what I am talking about. That is a direct insult.

I do know what I am talking about, it is just t hat I have no clue as to what you are talking about.
What he is talking about is that the theory of evolution has absolutely nothing to do with the origin of life. For that you will have to talk about abiogenesis. The two topics are not the same. Creationists like to think they are in order to discredit evolution.

In short:

Abiogenesis: Theories on how life originated.

Evolution: How life changes from one generation to the next. This is practically a proven 'fact' given the mountain of scientific evidence from various disciplines including real time experiments happening in the lab.

If you go back and read this entire thread (and a few of the other recent ones in this sub forum) you will see this has been hashed out extensively.

If you have some verifiable evidence that backs up your claims then feel free to present it (or link to it). Peer reviewed research preferred.

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Re: What If...?

Post #729

Post by marakorpa »

[Replying to post 725 by benchwarmer]

All I can see from this statement is that you are doing what Christendom has done, you break the theories up into different isms to confuse the masses. I should imagine that survival of the fittest, natural selection and mutation all have their 'clergy' and adherents as well.

I have asked this question in other forums on evolution, and it seemed to create a fair bit of fuss, but do you recognize what 'Kind' means in regards to the worlds animal, insect and plant population?

Can you accept that Kind means that the different families are called bovine, ovine, porcine, equine, canine feline and etc. and that there are many species of these kinds.

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Re: What If...?

Post #730

Post by marakorpa »

[Replying to post 725 by benchwarmer]

"Life changing from one generation t o the next": Please explain, a generation for man is around 20 years, what changes happen in that instance.

Something we must not overlook is that the Creation Story has been around since 1513BCE, around 3500 years, the many theories of the origin of life and evolution has only been bandied around since Darwin's time, a couple of hundred years.

During the consequent writings of different men, inspired by God, there has been no contradiction to the creation event as told by Moses.

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