"Atheists believe there is no God"

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Talishi
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"Atheists believe there is no God"

Post #1

Post by Talishi »

Many Christians like to say, "Atheists believe there is no God." But atheism is not a belief there is no God because to have a belief is to hold a proposition. There are thousands of other things that Christians, like atheists, do not have a belief in, from Sasquatch to elves. If the mechanism is correct that the non-existence of God is a proposition held by atheists, then both Christians and atheists must also have matching propositions for the non-existence of all other imaginary things, which clearly we do not, since we can only name a few.

So for the record:

Christians believe in the existence of Yahweh and they do not believe in the existence of Zeus.

Atheists do not believe in the existence of Yahweh and they also do not believe in the existence of Zeus.


Perhaps the underlying motivation for some Christians to say atheists believe there is no God is a suspicion they have that believing in something is inferior to understanding something. And perhaps it is enabled by the same sloppy reasoning that results in some Christians saying evolution is “only a theory� as if that were a bad thing.
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Post #11

Post by Talishi »

Delphi wrote: Atheism applies only to theism. Not necessarily towards any other beliefs.

One could not believe in the existence of Yahweh or Zeus yet still actively believe that tarot cards can tell the future, that the pyramids were built by space aliens, or that bigfoot faked the moon landings.
Technically that is true. In practical terms, you hardly ever see it because the rational approach excludes a belief in those other things as well. The exceptions might well be a kind of irrational reaction against one's parents, as in, "I hate my father, and he believes in God, so I refuse to believe in the God he does."
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Re: "Atheists believe there is no God"

Post #12

Post by Bust Nak »

[Replying to post 9 by Talishi]
So why not state that right from the start, instead of asking if they believe in Shiva or Zeus?

And like Delphi said, a bunch of the stuff there are spurious.

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Post #13

Post by SkyChief »

IMO, the reason many Christians think Atheists believe that there is no god is because their dictionary may have the following definition for atheist:

Simple Definition of atheist
: a person who believes that God does not exist

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

Here's another:

noun
1. a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/atheist

Notice that both of these definitions require the atheist to take an active position on the existence of god(s).

We shouldn't wag our fingers at Christians for not understanding that an Atheist doesn't really need to believe there is no god.

The editors of these dictionaries are the ones who need to be schooled. :study:

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Re: "Atheists believe there is no God"

Post #14

Post by Witness2U »

[Replying to post 1 by Talishi]

Unless you have heard the voice of God speak into your mind, you can only believe that he exists through other means that believers have experienced such as NDE's, observation of miracles, guidance of some power in control of your body that isn't common knowledge to most people, and just plain thoughts that enter the mind that suggests there is a God who created all things.

Atheists and theists who have never experienced the voice of God speaking into their minds or any other evidence that God uses to connect with his believers are looking for evidence that he exists. This is why atheists and theists read the Bible looking for this evidence but only to be deceived.

Many children who read Superman comic books can pretend to be Superman after learning he can fly like a bird. All they need to do is put on a red cape and a blue suit and off they go into an imaginary world.

Atheists and theists have a hard time believing the stories about God's prophets and saints who knew his voice very well and ended up writing and speaking for him because this kind of evidence never happened to them.

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Re: "Atheists believe there is no God"

Post #15

Post by PghPanther »

[Replying to post 1 by Talishi]

My position has been that I find no evidence in the claims of a personal God that interacts within human history.....the theistic claim, especially that of the God of the Bible........its easy to gather data and examine that and come to such a conclusion which would render me an atheist in the eyes of the Christian theist.

But if you are claiming an intelligent being or designer that does not interact on a personal level with humans or in fact with its creation at all.......well then I would have to take a position of agnostic in regards to that..........again, I find no evidence of such a being but unlike the personal God and its claims in the Bible I have no way to search and test all data both within the universe and/or outside of it to examine if such a being exists or doesn't with any certainty........so I must remain agnostic rather than atheistic towards that claim but again with no evidence validating it from what I can examine so far.........

Truth for me is provisional such as claimed in the scientific method.........I can never see truth being absolute because we may never know what an absolute is for anything......

....for example: A Biblical God can claim its is eternal..............but how can it know that absolutely?..........after all eternity hasn't happened yet to be able to say that.........which is absurd.

In science a provisional truth claim may be that a proton is eternal.............but if we find one decaying then that claim must be revised in accordance with the data.......

Which is the more prudent process in dealing with reality?

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Re: "Atheists believe there is no God"

Post #16

Post by Monta »

[Replying to post 14 by Witness2U]


"Atheists and theists who have never experienced the voice of God speaking into their minds or any other evidence that God uses to connect with his believers are looking for evidence that he exists. This is why atheists and theists read the Bible looking for this evidence but only to be deceived."


“Man know thyself; then thou shalt know the Universe and God.�
―Pythagoras

How true. We are so ignorant of even ourselves while we demand that the Supreme Being should manifest himself to us the way we want him to and no other.

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Post #17

Post by Tired of the Nonsense »

SkyChief wrote: IMO, the reason many Christians think Atheists believe that there is no god is because their dictionary may have the following definition for atheist:

Simple Definition of atheist
: a person who believes that God does not exist

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

Here's another:

noun
1. a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/atheist

Notice that both of these definitions require the atheist to take an active position on the existence of god(s).

We shouldn't wag our fingers at Christians for not understanding that an Atheist doesn't really need to believe there is no god.

The editors of these dictionaries are the ones who need to be schooled. :study:
Simple Definition of atheist
: a person who believes that God does not exist

This is a common mistake made by believers who cannot conceive of the possibility that no God exists. In fact atheists do not believe in the existence of God in the exact same way that most rational adults do not believe in the existence of Santa Claus or the Easter bunny. That is not a belief system at all. It is simple non belief.
Image "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.

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Post #18

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 11 by Talishi]

Delphi wrote: Atheism applies only to theism. Not necessarily towards any other beliefs.

One could not believe in the existence of Yahweh or Zeus yet still actively believe that tarot cards can tell the future, that the pyramids were built by space aliens, or that bigfoot faked the moon landings.
Talishi wrote:
Technically that is true. In practical terms, you hardly ever see it because the rational approach excludes a belief in those other things as well.
Why would we assume that a non-belief in something was arrived at by way of a RATIONAL approach? Creationists are "non-believers" in the theory of evolution.

Global warming skeptics are "non-believers".
911 truthers are "non-believing" that the CIA didn't have anything to do with it.
Some people are "non-believers" ( so they say ) that the earth is an oblate spheroid.

Lot's of skeptics aren't being rational at all. and that COULD include atheists.
I think it's safe to say that atheists who engage in debates like these tend to be a little more rational about it than other kinds of atheists.

Around here, the "New Age" movement is very very popular. Lots of those fine folks don't believe in a "god"... some do, some don't.

( I know a woman who calls herself an atheist but she believes in ANGELS, go figure )



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Re: "Atheists believe there is no God"

Post #19

Post by rikuoamero »

Witness2U wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Talishi]

Unless you have heard the voice of God speak into your mind, you can only believe that he exists through other means that believers have experienced such as NDE's, observation of miracles, guidance of some power in control of your body that isn't common knowledge to most people, and just plain thoughts that enter the mind that suggests there is a God who created all things.

Atheists and theists who have never experienced the voice of God speaking into their minds or any other evidence that God uses to connect with his believers are looking for evidence that he exists. This is why atheists and theists read the Bible looking for this evidence but only to be deceived.

Many children who read Superman comic books can pretend to be Superman after learning he can fly like a bird. All they need to do is put on a red cape and a blue suit and off they go into an imaginary world.

Atheists and theists have a hard time believing the stories about God's prophets and saints who knew his voice very well and ended up writing and speaking for him because this kind of evidence never happened to them.
Witness...if by any chance you're reading this, even after being banned...just know that I agree with you one hundred percent. A slight caveat though - for myself at least, it's not just because I don't hear/experience God that I don't believe. I have a whole host of reasons for why I don't, but generally speaking, yes, I never once experienced anything I could label as 'divine'. In fact, it was the complete lack of such at my confirmation that woke me up to the fact that my Christian beliefs were without merit.
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I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Re: "Atheists believe there is no God"

Post #20

Post by ttruscott »

Monta wrote: [Replying to post 14 by Witness2U]


"Atheists and theists who have never experienced the voice of God speaking into their minds or any other evidence that God uses to connect with his believers are looking for evidence that he exists. This is why atheists and theists read the Bible looking for this evidence but only to be deceived."


“Man know thyself; then thou shalt know the Universe and God.�
―Pythagoras

How true. We are so ignorant of even ourselves while we demand that the Supreme Being should manifest himself to us the way we want him to and no other.
Indeed. Add to this topic the idea that the Bible supports the belief that if we cannot hear HIM then it is our fault for having destroyed that ability through sinful choices and the idea of an innocent waiting for proof is deflated for Christians.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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