Prostitution

[ST88]

There are a number of places where prostitution is legal, such as the Netherlands, Spain, Germany, and parts of Nevada. My experience is that a majority of Americans view it as a universally immoral act, and a sizable minority view it as a victimless crime.

Should prostitution be legal?

What are the societal implications of legalization?

Is prostitution wrong?
Please define or explain your sense of right and wrong if you choose to answer this.

[justanotherperson]

"Yeah, I'll have the blonde with the big butt and could you put a little bit of mustard on that for me." When you legalize prostitution, you are degrading human beings to a mere consumer product and I believe that is just wrong. There are a lot, a lot of moral issues to think about also, but it seems that everyone that has taken part in this forum so far probably has no qualms over moral issues and would probably have sex with a prostitute if no one would find out. Usually, if you feel ashamed for doing something, that makes it wrong. And yes i know this can be just because of societies influence. I know for myself, If I believe something to be right, I have no problem publicly declaring my beliefs or actions no matter the embarrassment. Prostitution makes the partaker and prostitute feel guilty and for good reason.

Also many of you used the below argument for the legalization of prostitution:

Have to agree that prostitution should be legal. Legalization would probably only improve working and health conditions for any sex worker. Keeping it illegal doesn't make it go away.

If this is true I am going to have to go ahead legalize cocaine and many other illegal substances and actions also. The legalization of cocaine will also help the working conditions of the drug salesman but it will not help the druggie. Same for prostitution (pimpin' aint easy). Just because something is hard to put up with does not make a good reason to declare it OK.

[Corvus]

Just quickly, before class starts...

Have to agree that prostitution should be legal. Legalization would probably only improve working and health conditions for any sex worker. Keeping it illegal doesn't make it go away.

If this is true I am going to have to go ahead legalize cocaine and many other illegal substances and actions also. The legalization of cocaine will also help the working conditions of the drug salesman but it will not help the druggie. Same for prostitution (pimpin' aint easy). Just because something is hard to put up with does not make a good reason to declare it OK.

So, er, how exactly do prostitutes suffer from the clearly described working conditions, entitlements and benefits that we all share? I really don't see the correlation between an addictive, expensive substance that makes one feel good at the expense of reason and a service that makes one feel good at the cost of $$$, much as any masseuse would.

[Dilettante]

justanotherperson wrote:

When you legalize prostitution, you are degrading human beings to a mere consumer product and I believe that is just wrong. There are a lot, a lot of moral issues to think about also, but it seems that everyone that has taken part in this forum so far probably has no qualms over moral issues and would probably have sex with a prostitute if no one would find out. Usually, if you feel ashamed for doing something, that makes it wrong. And yes i know this can be just because of societies influence. I know for myself, If I believe something to be right, I have no problem publicly declaring my beliefs or actions no matter the embarrassment. Prostitution makes the partaker and prostitute feel guilty and for good reason.

First, we need to differentiate between adult, consensual prostitution and sexual slavery. While I would never request the services of a prostitute, I don't think consensual prostitution should be illegal (it's not in my country). Not everything I wouldn't approve of must be illegal. Not everything that's morally wrong or dubious has to be a crime.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of prostitutes do not choose that job. No one should have to do that job in order to survive or maintain an expensive drug habit. Too often prostitutes are just immigrant women who have been lured into the hands of pimping mafias with false promises of conventional jobs. Then they take away their passports and literally turn them into slaves. That kind of "prostitution" (sexual slavery actually), of course, should not (it is not) be legal anywhere, and the police need to crack down on it really hard.

[ST88]

When you legalize prostitution, you are degrading human beings to a mere consumer product and I believe that is just wrong.

Most of us are consumer products at one time or another. Wearing the swoosh(TM) makes you a whore for Nike.

There are a lot, a lot of moral issues to think about also, but it seems that everyone that has taken part in this forum so far probably has no qualms over moral issues and would probably have sex with a prostitute if no one would find out.

I don't get that from what I read in this thread. Please don't make generalizations about people based on their political beliefs. There are a great many things that are leagl and illegal that I have never partaken in, nor wish to, and that I think should be legal. In my view, government intervention requires good reasons. Making something illegal shouldn't have a standard of "Is it wrong?" It should have a standard of "Does it harm society?"

There are many things which are morally wrong, for lack of a better word, that are legal. And I say morally wrong in terms of codes of behavior. Adultery is one example. There are examples where adultery is harmful and examples where it is not harmful, and I think it should be legal (it's still illegal in many states) even though I've never cheated on my wife, nor do I intend to.

Usually, if you feel ashamed for doing something, that makes it wrong. And yes i know this can be just because of societies influence. I know for myself, If I believe something to be right, I have no problem publicly declaring my beliefs or actions no matter the embarrassment. Prostitution makes the partaker and prostitute feel guilty and for good reason.

Moral wrongness doesn't necessitate illegality. Just ask the FEC, the SEC, and the FCC.

Also many of you used the below argument for the legalization of prostitution:

Have to agree that prostitution should be legal. Legalization would probably only improve working and health conditions for any sex worker. Keeping it illegal doesn't make it go away.

If this is true I am going to have to go ahead legalize cocaine and many other illegal substances and actions also. The legalization of cocaine will also help the working conditions of the drug salesman but it will not help the druggie. Same for prostitution (pimpin' aint easy). Just because something is hard to put up with does not make a good reason to declare it OK.

Actually, legalizing cocaine would make the druggie's life better. The fact that it is illegal means that the people who participate must be ready at a moment's notice to protect themselves from police intervention and incarceration. A by-product of this is the self-preservation tactics of murder and intimidation against would-be witnesses. Not to mention the tendency for one illegal activity to promote others (drug trafficking is a gateway activity for arms trafficking, which, in my opinion, should be illegal). In other words, for many activities, it is the very fact of being illegal that makes it harmful. True, the druggie will still be a druggie, but I believe that to be a separate problem.

But to get back to prostitution, legalization will most certainly help the working conditions of the prostitute. If it were legalized, the current pimp/hooker capitalist model (in America) wouldn't survive and it would be replaced by something else. I don't think you can just take the way it currently works, remove the illegality of it, and then expect it to remain the same.

[concerro]

Should prostitution be legal?


Yes. I have a really hard time with women becoming objects to 'get off on' rather than people with emotions, feelings and real worth as individuals. It destroys those involved, and ruins their relationships now and in the future. A lot of times I think that people underestimate how debilitating emotional baggage can be. No matter how one looks at the situation it is still rough and has a high cost in human beings.

As for me and my house, I hope we never have to deal with this issue. I know I would not tolerate this behavior, mostly because I could not stand by and see the ones I love consumed by it. To me its wrong, you do whatever you want to.

Either a man can pay the woman to have sex and they can go their seperate ways, realising it is only a business deal, or the man can lie to the woman telling her he really cares, wasting her time and his, and in the end her feelings getting hurt when she sees him with someone else.
I am not saying prostiution is good, but a lot of men dont want to be in a relationship. They only want to have sex. The prostitute gives them that option, and there are some women who only want money to make sure they are taken care of, and even if they do enter into a relationship they will leave when a bigger paycheck comes along. I know that not all prostitutes or clients are like that but I know sometimes a man does want sex only, and if he is willing to pay for it then it is his business.

[Overcomer]

Making a sin legal isn't going to change its wickedness in the eyes of God. What unholy man accepts isn't what holy God accepts and it's his desire that matters.

God created sex. Therefore, it's good thing. But the devil perverts it. When sex is used to degrade someone (as prostitution degrades the prostitute whether male or female) or when sex is nothing but fornication or adultery in action, it isn't what God intended; it's what the devil made it. Therefore, it harms all those involved on a spiritual level, if not on an emotional or physical one.

Even secular psychologists and sociologists will tell you that sex between a man and a woman in a monogamous marriage is the healthiest thing for all, physically and emotionally. Medical professionals agree that the reason we have had a proliferation of STDs in the last few decades is because so many people abandoned monogamy and started to accept fornication, adultery and mutliple sex partners as acceptable and even laudable.

Prostitution should not be legalized. Prostitutes should be freed from that lifestyle, not encouraged, and, in result, imprisoned in it.

[MagusYanam]

I'm going to take a double stance on this issue, if I may be granted the liberty. The first is an idealist's stance. Prostitution is a social wrong, and should not exist. The sexual act and the transmission of life into the next generation are invaluable - to put a price on them is unthinkable from a strictly moral view. Not to mention the degradation, poverty, abuse and social stigmata associated with prostitutes and their profession, which make it a very distasteful business overall.

Now, the pragmatist stance. We might as well face facts: prostitution exists, and it isn't going to go away tamely. Another fact: just because something is bad doesn't mean it should be illegal. We know from experience that outlawing a social vice (we've tried this with alcohol) only exacerbates the prevalence of that social vice and essentially entrenches it in the criminal sphere. The result? I guarantee you it won't be pretty (which is why we've since relegalised alcohol). I agree with a point made earlier that legal prostitution, while not the best possible scenario from an idealist's view, would definitely be the easiest for the society to manage.

By the way, this view is also applicable to abortion and guns. I take a moderate stance on pretty much all of them. Abortion and the NRA gun culture are definite social wrongs, but they won't go away just by making them illegal. Instead, regulation and heavy taxation is probably the best way to go.

[ST88]

Making a sin legal isn't going to change its wickedness in the eyes of God. What unholy man accepts isn't what holy God accepts and it's his desire that matters.

Many sins are legal. The "eyes of God" test shouldn't apply to Law. As long as there are non-Christians and Christians who have free will, Sin and Law should be separate because their antecedents are different and their ameliorations are different. Sin is a religious issue -- the desire of religion is to train the mind to think in a certain way. Law is a civil issue -- the desire of Law is to limit actions through bureaucratic punishment. Like you say, wickedness is in the eyes of God. Therefore, if someone should answer to God, why would we make it automatic that they should also answer to Law?

God created sex. Therefore, it's good thing. But the devil perverts it. When sex is used to degrade someone (as prostitution degrades the prostitute whether male or female) or when sex is nothing but fornication or adultery in action, it isn't what God intended; it's what the devil made it. Therefore, it harms all those involved on a spiritual level, if not on an emotional or physical one.

The mythology of the origin of sex nothwithstanding, degredation is a judgment from an observer, who may or may not have preconceived ideas about what is degrading and what isn't. Ask either participant and you may get a different answer.

Even secular psychologists and sociologists will tell you that sex between a man and a woman in a monogamous marriage is the healthiest thing for all, physically and emotionally.

Pop psychologists maybe. The only reason this might be construed as "emotionally" healthy is that the larger society says that marriage is healthy. There is no reason that a single person can't be happy or emotionally fulfilled. If the larger society said that it would be unhealthy to wear white after Labor Day, then doing so could be considered emotionally unhealthy. You might have a point about physical health, because sex has become a crapshoot for STDs, but this is actually an argument for the legalization of prostitution, and it is not an argument for marriage.

If protitution were legalized, it would have to be regulated, both by government and by the marketplace. The laws of economics dictate that the most popular product will do the best and will be copied by other producers. If it is determined by the marketplace that "certified 100% disease-free" protitutes (boy, imagine the office of that department in HHS) are more desirable than the unrated or the negatively rated ones, then the disease-free will proliferate.

Additionally, marriage is no guarantee of an STD-free lifestyle. It is possible, for example, to acquire AIDS, gonorrhea, and a host of other diseases without having been exposed through sexual contact. Monogamy doesn't save you from those. What are we to make of the woman of the husband who aquires AIDS from a blood transfusion?

Medical professionals agree that the reason we have had a proliferation of STDs in the last few decades is because so many people abandoned monogamy and started to accept fornication, adultery and mutliple sex partners as acceptable and even laudable.

This is a nifty argument for a regulated prostitution industry.

[Regular_Guy]

Should prostitution be legal?
No I don't think so. I find it strange that pornography is legal and prostitution is not. (I know that in some places prostitution is legal but you know what I mean ) I wonder whats the difference.


What are the societal implications of legalization?

When I think of legalization of prostitution I think of women giving up their bodies to the mercy of American corporations. Would "pimping" also benefit from this? Would they have to change their title to "agent"?
Why bother to get a real job when you can easily pimp? Or sell your body for sex.


Is prostitution wrong? I believe it is.
I think it was john stuart mill that wrote: a free man cannot sell himself into slavery because this is contradictory; the act defeats the purpose of him being free. I don't see what's closer to slavey than being forced to have all your power subverted for however length of time. A free women should not be able to do this. the women's intent is not pleasure, but money. In essence she sell her liberty to earn a living. Which seems wrong to me.

[McCulloch]

Is prostitution wrong? I believe it is.
I think it was john stuart mill that wrote: a free man cannot sell himself into slavery because this is contradictory; the act defeats the purpose of him being free. I don't see what's closer to slavey than being forced to have all your power subverted for however length of time. A free women should not be able to do this. the women's intent is not pleasure, but money. In essence she sell her liberty to earn a living. Which seems wrong to me.

I don't see what's closer to slavery than being forced to have all your power subverted for however length of time. A free man should not be able to enlist in the armed forces or to sign a contract. The man's intent is not pleasure but political or money. In essence he sells his liberty to promote the political agenda of the government of the day or to make money. Does that seem wrong to you?