Stricter punishment is the answer to juvenile crime

[jesse]

I belive it is an effective way, yet there's still talk about emotional scars, humilation and so on. Under what conditions and how should it be administrated? Or is it morally wrong altogether?

[Simon_Peter]

Dear Confused,

I think you might be suffering from some confusion yourself. Do you have any factual data that would accurately compare youth crime against the total crime rate. Do some equations and percentages. And display it here, otherwise your statement is nothing more than personal bias.

Once we have the general data, we need more specific data, such as types of crime committed by youths. And once we have that, we can discuss what problems teenagers have. And the reasons for their actions behind their crimes, their motives their personal backgrounds and rather than punishing the children, we should work out some preventative measures, because surely thats the ultimate aim preventing most crimes by improving children's lives. Making them less likely to commit crime in the future. As the majority of reasons for youth crime is because of their financial status, obviously some children do commit hate crimes. Where by the crime did not have a motive behind it, purely was committed for hateful reasons. But i am sure those type of crimes are few and far between. However they do get the most publicity because its so horrific. Maybe your being sensationalized by the media.


Regards,
Simon

[Confused]

Perhaps I did misunderstand you. But from my view, I see soft sciences justifying every single thing any juvenile does from a perspective of nature or nurture and if you fear the current generation, you should be thankful you won't be alive for the next generations reign if nothing is done to start making changes in how we approach juvenile delinquency. If we don't start holding them accountable and quit making excuses for them, how productive do you think life will become? We blame the parents, science, society, cultures, etc... for everything our children do wrong. We can't yell at them without it being verbal abuse, spank them without it being physical abuse, ground them without it being mental abuse.

Stopping adult crimes is not going to do anything about juvenile crimes because guess what, the juvenile will grow up. Instead of trying to stop or change 30 years worth of behaviors, why not stop it earlier in life, when there is only 9, 10, 14 years worth of patterns of behavior to break?

Actually, what you are doing, is blaming everything on kids, such as myself. I am not a criminal; MANY kids aren't criminals, but you act as if we are a "problem" in the system while the adults are doing whatever they want and are screwing the world up in the process. Your youth generation was most likely worse than the current one; delinquency rates have been dropping. All you are doing is beating a dead horse.

NO, I am not blaming everything on kids. Nor do I advocate it. What I do advocate is that we hold kids accountable for their actions instead of saying "It's ok, 14 year old Johnny had a dad who beat his mother and then left them destitute so it isn't his fault that he put that 13 year old boy in the hospital because he beat him with a steel pipe, he is just reacting to the abuse and loss of his father". I don't think extremes are necessary either way. But I do think that society does coddle children too much anymore.

[Confused]

Dear Confused,

I think you might be suffering from some confusion yourself. Do you have any factual data that would accurately compare youth crime against the total crime rate. Do some equations and percentages. And display it here, otherwise your statement is nothing more than personal bias.

I am sorry, but what are you talking about? What post did I mention anything about statistics or data? I think you might be a bit more confused than I am.

Once we have the general data, we need more specific data, such as types of crime committed by youths. And once we have that, we can discuss what problems teenagers have. And the reasons for their actions behind their crimes, their motives their personal backgrounds and rather than punishing the children, we should work out some preventative measures, because surely thats the ultimate aim preventing most crimes by improving children's lives. Making them less likely to commit crime in the future. As the majority of reasons for youth crime is because of their financial status, obviously some children do commit hate crimes. Where by the crime did not have a motive behind it, purely was committed for hateful reasons. But i am sure those type of crimes are few and far between. However they do get the most publicity because its so horrific. Maybe your being sensationalized by the media.


Regards,
Simon

Hold on there cowboy. Allow me to present your post verbatim:

Hey there,

I believe that anyone who commits a crime should be hung, and drawn, tortured for five years with screw drivers through their feet, then Crucified. Their body should be burnt. There life's achievements wiped from history. The death records burned along with their birth certificates, national security numbers. So no one will ever know they existed or how they died. Or even why they died. There death should be as painful as possible.

I think that will reduce all crime especially juvenile ones

Regards,
Simon

That was post #2.

I have not clue what you are talking about in any of this post. Would you like to show me how it is relevant to any post I have made in this thread?

[Simon_Peter]

Hey Confused,

I think this confusion, is a little more serious, than i first anticipated. let me begin to refresh your mind. You mentioned that children should be held accountable for their actions. Secondly you said that society is unfairly forgiving of these children. I merely stated that if you provide factual evidence, and look at this issue more objectively, then you can begin to back up your claims. You stated two things. Simply this, where is your proof. If you don't have proof, then your statements are nothing more than personal bias, and no such change in the legal system is acted upon with un-founded allegations. It seems you have very strong opinions, but as i say they are nothing more than opinions.

I believe that anyone who commits a crime should be hung, and drawn, tortured for five years with screw drivers through their feet, then Crucified. Their body should be burnt. There life's achievements wiped from history. The death records burned along with their birth certificates, national security numbers. So no one will ever know they existed or how they died. Or even why they died. There death should be as painful as possible.

I think that will reduce all crime especially juvenile ones

This was a sarcastic comment, i am sure you would have worked that one out. Also i think your very intelligent, and you provide some great answers for the relative nature of 'good' and 'evil'. But this issue requires more than just answers they require evidence based reasoning. Rather than emotional reactions.

The example above is what could happen, if the legal system was subject to biased emotional perspectives. As justice is just a persons opinion of punishment. A mother would physically kill someone if they punched their children, the mother would have thought this was justice, however the initial action was less violent than the punishment. So it is about balancing the course of justice with appropriate action, devoid of emotional content. The punishment ideally should be equal to the crime. If i rob a car stereo, i should get 3 months in juvenile detention center, so i can learn to rehabilitate into society. If i take someones life, i should be given life imprisonment. However Justice is also about making life fair for everyone, so they are less inclined to revolt, or commit crime. as the preventative measure should be the highest priority. If a child commits a crime, they should have equal punishment. But that punishment should be teaching something to them, there is no point in wasting money on people who will re-offend. Children at present don't have an equal life in comparison to adults. They cannot vote, therefore they cannot change there circumstances, they feel trapped. They cannot choose their education, they are force fed. They cannot get minim wage, but they still need money. Hence they commit crime to compensate for the failure of the local political policy's. They have less legal rights, purely for one reason, they are not educated enough to decide things.

p.s. i want to marry your mind.

Regards
Simon

[Confused]

Hey Confused,

I think this confusion, is a little more serious, than i first anticipated. let me begin to refresh your mind. You mentioned that children should be held accountable for their actions. Secondly you said that society is unfairly forgiving of these children. I merely stated that if you provide factual evidence, and look at this issue more objectively, then you can begin to back up your claims. You stated two things. Simply this, where is your proof. If you don't have proof, then your statements are nothing more than personal bias, and no such change in the legal system is acted upon with un-founded allegations. It seems you have very strong opinions, but as i say they are nothing more than opinions.

Ok, would you like to start by telling me what two assertions I have made the require factual evidence?

I believe that anyone who commits a crime should be hung, and drawn, tortured for five years with screw drivers through their feet, then Crucified. Their body should be burnt. There life's achievements wiped from history. The death records burned along with their birth certificates, national security numbers. So no one will ever know they existed or how they died. Or even why they died. There death should be as painful as possible.

I think that will reduce all crime especially juvenile ones

This was a sarcastic comment, i am sure you would have worked that one out.
Also i think your very intelligent, and you provide some great answers for the relative nature of 'good' and 'evil'. But this issue requires more than just answers they require evidence based reasoning. Rather than emotional reactions.

p.s. i want to marry your mind.

Regards
Simon

LOL, you want to marry a confused mind. I apologize for not catching the sarcasm in the post I quoted. I have not debated with you enough to know your style.

[Confused]

Hey Confused,

I think this confusion, is a little more serious, than i first anticipated. let me begin to refresh your mind. You mentioned that children should be held accountable for their actions. Secondly you said that society is unfairly forgiving of these children. I merely stated that if you provide factual evidence, and look at this issue more objectively, then you can begin to back up your claims. You stated two things. Simply this, where is your proof. If you don't have proof, then your statements are nothing more than personal bias, and no such change in the legal system is acted upon with un-founded allegations. It seems you have very strong opinions, but as i say they are nothing more than opinions.

At what point did I say that I was giving anything more than my own opinion based on my experiences?
As far as society, you interpreted that however you wanted. I didn't say anything about unfairly forgiving these children.
Is there anything I have written in this thread that you would like to address in the context in which I provided it? Starting from my first post, #3, would you like to address each one in context or keep making me more confused?

Do i need to connect all the dots..

Everything i have said, relates solely and directly to your posts alone. If you cannot see what i have wrote, you should really get glasses. Or maybe you suffer from something else. However if someone else is using your account, and posting messages in your name then i deeply apologize.

Regards
Simon

I guess you do need to connect the dots because I am not following.

[Simon_Peter]

Hey,

hehe, yah i'm werid like that. Playing devils advocate. The assertions you made in one sense don't require facts. But ideally with them we could gain greater understanding. They deserve to be accountable for their actions

Which i totally agree with, but i interpreted those assertions that justice is not prevailing because we discriminate children. So we are less inclined to give them the fair punishment. However every child is held accountable, otherwise no children would go to prison...

Your correct I also interpreted what you thought about justice. i thought that you wanted children to be punished more severely than their adult counterparts.

Example of justice

A mother would physically kill someone if someone punched their children, the mother would have thought this was justice, however the initial action was less violent than the punishment. So it is about balancing the course of justice with appropriate action, devoid of emotional content. The punishment ideally should be equal to the crime. If i rob a car stereo, i should get 3 months in juvenile detention center, so i can learn to rehabilitate into society. If i take someones life, i should be given life imprisonment. However Justice is also about making life fair for everyone, so they are less inclined to revolt, or commit crime. as the preventative measure should be the highest priority. If a child commits a crime, they should have equal punishment. But that punishment should be teaching something to them, there is no point in wasting money on people who will re-offend.

However, let me reaffirm no child is un-punishable by law.

Do you agree or disagree, have i misunderstood you yet again?

Regards,
Simon

[Confused]

Hey,

hehe, yah i'm werid like that. Playing devils advocate. The assertions you made in one sense don't require facts. But ideally with them we could gain greater understanding. They deserve to be accountable for their actions

I often enjoy playing the other side as well. I actually learn a lot more that way at times.

Which i totally agree with, but i interpreted those assertions that justice is not prevailing because we discriminate children. So we are less inclined to give them the fair punishment. However every child is held accountable, otherwise no children would go to prison...

No, I don't claim justice is not prevailing or anything to the opposite. I only state that children need to be held accountable.

Example of justice

A mother would physically kill someone if they punched their children, the mother would have thought this was justice, however the initial action was less violent than the punishment. So it is about balancing the course of justice with appropriate action, devoid of emotional content. The punishment ideally should be equal to the crime. If i rob a car stereo, i should get 3 months in juvenile detention center, so i can learn to rehabilitate into society. If i take someones life, i should be given life imprisonment. However Justice is also about making life fair for everyone, so they are less inclined to revolt, or commit crime. as the preventative measure should be the highest priority. If a child commits a crime, they should have equal punishment. But that punishment should be teaching something to them, there is no point in wasting money on people who will re-offend.

In my first post, I addressed all of this. I admitted that many factors had to go into such a complicated issue. Emotions have nothing to do with this. They play no role here. Only observations.

[Simon_Peter]

Do you not think children are accountable?

If so why not, do you have any real examples, of unaccountability regarding children. Also let me say that most adults can find loop holes in the law. There is a 35 year old gangster in england responsible for 40% of all murders in London. who has never been to prison. Are you so sure that children especially are not being held accountable?

If so justice has not prevailed.

btw i am doing my degree in law

[Confused]

Do you not think children are accountable?

If so why not, do you have any real examples, of unaccountability regarding children. Also let me say that most adults can find loop holes in the law. There is a 35 year old gangster in england responsible for 40% of all murders in London. who has never been to prison. Are you so sure that children especially are not being held accountable?

If so justice has not prevailed.

btw i am doing my degree in law

Are you even reading what I am writing? Or are you narrowing it down to become something it is not. Every time you seek to take my comments into another context, I will refer you back to my first post in this thread.

Do I think that ALL children are not held accountable. No. Do I think social sciences has given way to many excuses for society in general to be excused for their actions. Yes. Would you like to say that is my own bias, fine. Is it relevant, no.

Justice does not always prevail.