Why does it matter whether a fetus is life or not?

Homicidal_Cherry53 · Post by **Homicidal_Cherry53** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:29 am

The debate over abortion always seems to boil down to one fundamental question: is a fetus life or not? This is something that has always perplexed me, as whether or not it is life seems wholly irrelevant. Even if it is determined to be life, we have an undying contempt for the majority of all life on this planet. Bacteria, mold, single-celled organisms, insects, and generally anything that isn't a mammal are frequently killed by people without a second thought. So what difference does it make if a fetus is a life? I kill all types of life on a regular basis so why not that week-old fetus that is little more than a cluster of cells?

In the same way that it being alive does not make it so sacred, it not being alive does not mean it should not be cared for and protected. Even if it isn't life, it still has a great deal of potential to become not just life, but human life, and most will agree that human life is something to be cherished and defended. Furthermore, a late-term abortion could be incredibly painful to the fetus, regardless of whether or not it is alive. It need not be alive to have a nervous system and be able to feel its own death. We shouldn't be bickering over whether a fetus fits the arbitrary criteria with which we define life. We should be asking how developed the fetus is. Can it feel pain? Is it likely to become a life-form whose rights are universally accepted (i.e., is it likely to be born)? In the case of Christians, when does a fetus get a soul?

Ok, now that I'm done with that semi-rant, some questions for debate:

Should whether or not a fetus is a life affect how we treat it?

What other criteria should be evaluated when determining what rights a fetus has?

puddleglum · Post by **puddleglum** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:53 am

The important question is not whether the fetus is life but whether it is human life.

theAtheistofnoIllusions · Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:12 pm

There is no argument that the fetus is not alive and human. That the fetus is a living human is irrelevant. If you don't want it, kill it. If you do, keep it. It's state of existence has nothing to do with it.

Homicidal_Cherry53 · Post by **Homicidal_Cherry53** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:51 pm

theAtheistofnoIllusions wrote:There is no argument that the fetus is not alive and human. That the fetus is a living human is irrelevant. If you don't want it, kill it. If you do, keep it. It's state of existence has nothing to do with it.

My point is, in fact, that it is irrelevant. However, the state of existence is what people tend to focus on when discussing abortion. Anti-abortion people identify themselves as pro-life for a reason, and attempts to dissuade pro-lifers are usually centered around disproving that a fetus is an independent life form.

The important question is not whether the fetus is life but whether it is human life.

So why are we asking whether or not it fits the definition we created for human life? We should instead be asking whether or not a fetus has the attributes that makes us value and protect human life so much.

theAtheistofnoIllusions · Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:14 am

Ah a fellow Atheist I see. You are correct in that the question is irrelevant insofar that it doesn't effect me. Myself, I wouldn't do it. Others don't value human life so highly.

Defender of Truth · Post by **Defender of Truth** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:14 pm

Well, even if a fetus is human life, even if it's equal to us, is murder wrong?

What makes murder wrong?

theAtheistofnoIllusions · Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:52 am

Nothing makes murder wrong. There are no constants in the Universe for us to base any kind of constant morality. What is good for me is Good. What is bad for me is Bad. Christians would argue that it is wrong by virtue of the inherent value of the soul. I don't take such a position. I reject the soul. The soul is a name they've given experience and sensation. It has no more inherent value than anything else. It's value is that which I choose to give it. Does a lion "murder" a gazelle? In what way are you different? Are you not a mammal? Do you not have the instincts of a carnivore? You want justification for your actions so you assign meaningless terms to them, so you can live in the false comfort of pretending that it matters. Be happy that most of us hold these illusions.

Defender of Truth · Post by **Defender of Truth** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:59 pm

theAtheistofnoIllusions wrote:Nothing makes murder wrong.

Alright! BAMM!! You're dead!

Murder of course isn't wrong, so you can't condemn anyone for murdering. The strongest condemnation you can give is "I don't like it".

Do you think Adolf Hitler was wrong? You probably don't. You don't agree with him, most likely, but you don't think he was wrong.

theAtheistofnoIllusions · Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:49 pm

I can condemn whoever for whatever I please. Murder isn't wrong insofar that it doesn't harm me. Adolf Hitler is irrelevant. Whatever effect he has had is done or will be done. A discussion of his motives or their justification is also irrelevant, for the action has been done. I am in no place or agree or disagree with him. I think he was insane, and an idiot for not seeing a very clear truth.

kayky · Post by **kayky** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:56 pm

A fetus is both alive and human in the sense it possesses human DNA. But a fetus in the early months of a pregnancy is not a person and does not have the rights afforded to personhood.