I read recently a 20 year old woman had been having sex with her dog since age 13.
She made selfie and Fido video and showed her boyfriend who was shocked and turned her into cops & she was charged with beastiality, later amended to
a crime against nature.
An odd charge in light of global warming, pollution, rising ocean levels and no one is charged with a criminal offense of a crime against nature.
Should she be criminally prosecuted & is this a crime in your opinion?
No one has commented on Fido's response, or if Fido was in fact willing.
Does Fido need psychological counseling or simply shot in the head as has been the practice for centuries?
Kidding aside tho is this an issue of morality or sexual preference?
Is it a moral AND criminal issue or a morality issue only?
Should the boyfriend feel his g-friend cheated on him? (moral & emotional response?)
Should the b-friend have gone to the cops?
What is a crime against nature? Should the woman be charged criminally with anything?
There are a lot of really keen minds here & I respect them so.
I value those opinions.
If you must have documentation there are many on line articles.
Here's is but one.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/2 ... 12694.html
Is having sex with an animal a crime or even wrong?
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Beans
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Post #61
[Replying to post 60 by jeager106]
I also find little in the J.W. doctrines to question. There are a few things but none that I really consider to be serious. I accept that we do not know every detail of everything and we must learn as we go. I believe that God does it that way knowing it is good for us. It teaches us to have a trustful patience in him. And i apply that same idea to their spiritual leaders. They, too, must have that trustful patience.
I agree completely with your statement concerning the Trinity and hell.
And yes, rationalizing such practices as this thread discusses is also disgusting to me, like kids who yet fling boogers but worse. LOL. I understand they don't know any better because they have not ever been taught better. Of course there are bound to be some who would retort that they were taught Christian principles at one time and so they are not like kids who are yet untaught. But I know they were taught Christian laws rather than principles. Do this, don't do that, with the only support for it being, "What would Jesus do?" And I know that is not the same as understanding the deeper reasons why such things are wrong. The principle is that we do not intentionally act in ways that increase the risk of harm to others who we are supposed to love. The principle is that God's ways are tried and proven to produce the all around best results for us. The Psalms says, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times." Psalms 12:6 And we have not yet found wisdom until we know deep in our hearts how true that really is.
To start a thread on J.W. doctrine vs. the rest of Christendom is a good idea if everyone would keep their answers contained to the scriptures instead of going into volumes on the teachings of the Catholic church fathers as their first line of support. You see, it is like the Orthodox Jew's who are the house of the Pharisees and believe in an a second Torah, an oral Torah, saying that it is impossible to understand the written Torah just by reading it for God gave it to the Rabbinical priesthood to interpret it for us. Many who call themselves Christian use the line of Christian Apologists and the Catholic church fathers in that same manner. They present such a thick wall of words that they are unable to see and sound reasoning hardly penetrates it to be able to reach them. So I would have to plan very carefully how to even begin such a thread, let alone continue it.
I also find little in the J.W. doctrines to question. There are a few things but none that I really consider to be serious. I accept that we do not know every detail of everything and we must learn as we go. I believe that God does it that way knowing it is good for us. It teaches us to have a trustful patience in him. And i apply that same idea to their spiritual leaders. They, too, must have that trustful patience.
I agree completely with your statement concerning the Trinity and hell.
And yes, rationalizing such practices as this thread discusses is also disgusting to me, like kids who yet fling boogers but worse. LOL. I understand they don't know any better because they have not ever been taught better. Of course there are bound to be some who would retort that they were taught Christian principles at one time and so they are not like kids who are yet untaught. But I know they were taught Christian laws rather than principles. Do this, don't do that, with the only support for it being, "What would Jesus do?" And I know that is not the same as understanding the deeper reasons why such things are wrong. The principle is that we do not intentionally act in ways that increase the risk of harm to others who we are supposed to love. The principle is that God's ways are tried and proven to produce the all around best results for us. The Psalms says, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times." Psalms 12:6 And we have not yet found wisdom until we know deep in our hearts how true that really is.
To start a thread on J.W. doctrine vs. the rest of Christendom is a good idea if everyone would keep their answers contained to the scriptures instead of going into volumes on the teachings of the Catholic church fathers as their first line of support. You see, it is like the Orthodox Jew's who are the house of the Pharisees and believe in an a second Torah, an oral Torah, saying that it is impossible to understand the written Torah just by reading it for God gave it to the Rabbinical priesthood to interpret it for us. Many who call themselves Christian use the line of Christian Apologists and the Catholic church fathers in that same manner. They present such a thick wall of words that they are unable to see and sound reasoning hardly penetrates it to be able to reach them. So I would have to plan very carefully how to even begin such a thread, let alone continue it.
Post #62
[Replying to post 61 by Beans]
Yes I have run into the Catholic "wall of words" in other religious conversations
on other boards.
I got interest in Christian history while earning my Bachelors in Human Resources
at a Christian University. Our first text book was a N.I.V. study Bible and it was required reading. I wrote lots of pages of essays from that book.
Studying Christian history led me to study Christianity, they many, many, denominations. Some simply had to be wrong, few had scripture correct.
I had help from a professor who taught me what was meant to be parable, metaphore, poetry, literal & how to recognize which was which.
I do understand why a Christian would just give up, quit believing, then reject and denounce the Christian God and the Bible.
( I was 49 when I began attending college )
Given the opposition to Jesus, the N.T. it's amazing the works survived at all.
I recently began a Bible study with J.W., good family, srong faith, and accurate
understanding of scripture.
I believe we are indeed living "deep in the end times" of this system of things".
The world, it's governments, the people, have gone mad.
These things will only get worse. Much worse.
People that claim they were once Christians now rationalize that it''s disgusting,
but "o.k." to perform human/animal sex, rationalizing how "o.k." it must certainly be.
Others here that renounce previous Christian beliefs can even take the time to
write down 100 reasons why they no longer believe.
Think about the effor ti took for that person to actually list 100 reasons
for abandoning a former faith. Most all the listed reasons were "I" & "me" statements. A person locked up in the "self" without a clue.
I am sure many former believers have rationalized themselves into a complete lack of faith.
Yes I have run into the Catholic "wall of words" in other religious conversations
on other boards.
I got interest in Christian history while earning my Bachelors in Human Resources
at a Christian University. Our first text book was a N.I.V. study Bible and it was required reading. I wrote lots of pages of essays from that book.
Studying Christian history led me to study Christianity, they many, many, denominations. Some simply had to be wrong, few had scripture correct.
I had help from a professor who taught me what was meant to be parable, metaphore, poetry, literal & how to recognize which was which.
I do understand why a Christian would just give up, quit believing, then reject and denounce the Christian God and the Bible.
( I was 49 when I began attending college )
Given the opposition to Jesus, the N.T. it's amazing the works survived at all.
I recently began a Bible study with J.W., good family, srong faith, and accurate
understanding of scripture.
I believe we are indeed living "deep in the end times" of this system of things".
The world, it's governments, the people, have gone mad.
These things will only get worse. Much worse.
People that claim they were once Christians now rationalize that it''s disgusting,
but "o.k." to perform human/animal sex, rationalizing how "o.k." it must certainly be.
Others here that renounce previous Christian beliefs can even take the time to
write down 100 reasons why they no longer believe.
Think about the effor ti took for that person to actually list 100 reasons
for abandoning a former faith. Most all the listed reasons were "I" & "me" statements. A person locked up in the "self" without a clue.
I am sure many former believers have rationalized themselves into a complete lack of faith.
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Beans
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Post #63
[Replying to post 62 by jeager106]
You sound very reasonable and discerning. I am in agreement with all you said.
I heard something about another place where we can go to discuss our beliefs on this sight for better one on one communication. Let me look for it and I will get back to you.
Added: I went to the Holy Huddle Room and don't you know it would not let me begin a new thread. It said i would have to have special permission, whatever that means. From who? Who do I ask?
I found another place called Questions for Specific Members. I could go there and pose the question just as you suggested. From there we can figure out what other steps to take.
Does that sound agreeable to you?
You sound very reasonable and discerning. I am in agreement with all you said.
I heard something about another place where we can go to discuss our beliefs on this sight for better one on one communication. Let me look for it and I will get back to you.
Added: I went to the Holy Huddle Room and don't you know it would not let me begin a new thread. It said i would have to have special permission, whatever that means. From who? Who do I ask?
I found another place called Questions for Specific Members. I could go there and pose the question just as you suggested. From there we can figure out what other steps to take.
Does that sound agreeable to you?
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Divine Insight
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Post #64
This is what I call a form of "extremism".jeager106 wrote: People that claim they were once Christians now rationalize that it''s disgusting,
but "o.k." to perform human/animal sex, rationalizing how "o.k." it must certainly be.
No one in this thread suggested that it's o.k. to have "sex" with animals.
The question asked in the OP is whether it should be considered to be a criminal act, or immoral. I don't think it needs to be either or those two extremes.
Why do some people feel a need to criminalize everything? There's another thread where someone is asking why America incarcerates such a large percentage of the population. Perhaps its because the only way we know how to deal with things is to make criminals out of people.
That is actually an extremely ineffective way of dealing with anything.
I think this mentality of making criminals out of people for every little thing is actually inspired by religions like Christianity. This is what the Bible teaches us. It teaches us that our "Creator God" deals with everything by making "sinners" out of everyone and threatening them with heinous punishments.
I blame these Abrahamic religions for instilling this type of mentality in the minds of people. They see what they believe to be a "God" using violence and heinous punishments for "sinners" and take this to mean that this is the divine method of dealing with these things.
What is to be gained by making a criminal out of this girl?
[center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
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Beans
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Post #65
[Replying to post 64 by Divine Insight]
Yes, Divine Insight, we see that you are presenting that middle road. But he said, "People", as in whether or not they are here in this platform.
I sadly have to admit that someone who I love very much made that extreme shift jeager 106 speaks of. And jeager is probably like me in that he knows many who have done that. So what you see being written is the expression of our grief over it.
I don't particularly like the way we over-legislate, either. However, that is not the fault of the law, but the fault of those in charge of the law. The law is like a tool which can be used properly for good or like a weapon to harm.
A good example of the law being used like a weapon to harm is what happened to me when I was about 15 years old.
I entered a store with money in my pocket and while I shopped a friend who had come with me went off by himself and stole things from the store. I had no idea he was going to do that and only found out that he had when we were out of the store and the store security caught up to us and stopped us.
They searched us both and while they found stolen items in his pockets they found nothing stolen on me. And besides that I had a bag in my hand with a purchase receipt for the item which was in the bag. Yet they charged me equally with him. I knew how unfair that was but because I protested that they ought to reason on it they labeled me as being belligerent. I told the judge the story once we got to court and he yet found me guilty, telling me, "Well, chalk it up to a lesson learned."
Another time as a 16 year old kid that first injustice came back into play to harm me again. A friend who was having to walk because his car had a bad battery made it as far as my house and being tired of carrying a battery asked if he could just sit it in our shed until the following day. So I told him no problem.
Before my friend made it back to pick up the battery the police had been to his house and charged with the theft of the battery because a neighbor of the person from whom he stole it had seen it and recognized him. he never told me he stole the battery but because i now had that false charge on my record when I was 15 they decided to charge me with Receiving and Concealing Stolen Property. And once again I told the judge what had happened and he told me, "Well, consider it a lesson learned."
They build up false pictures of people and then they wonder why they are so disrespected today. It was for reasons like that I decided to study law. And what I quickly figured out is that it was not the law which is bad, but the men who are in charge of the law to make decisions about the law.
They did that kind of stuff to me for years because I protested it's unfairness. John Q Public cannot know who I am by looking my record up on the Internet for they will only find how they painted me. How would you feel about having to live with that?
We understand more than you might imagine.
Yes, Divine Insight, we see that you are presenting that middle road. But he said, "People", as in whether or not they are here in this platform.
I sadly have to admit that someone who I love very much made that extreme shift jeager 106 speaks of. And jeager is probably like me in that he knows many who have done that. So what you see being written is the expression of our grief over it.
I don't particularly like the way we over-legislate, either. However, that is not the fault of the law, but the fault of those in charge of the law. The law is like a tool which can be used properly for good or like a weapon to harm.
A good example of the law being used like a weapon to harm is what happened to me when I was about 15 years old.
I entered a store with money in my pocket and while I shopped a friend who had come with me went off by himself and stole things from the store. I had no idea he was going to do that and only found out that he had when we were out of the store and the store security caught up to us and stopped us.
They searched us both and while they found stolen items in his pockets they found nothing stolen on me. And besides that I had a bag in my hand with a purchase receipt for the item which was in the bag. Yet they charged me equally with him. I knew how unfair that was but because I protested that they ought to reason on it they labeled me as being belligerent. I told the judge the story once we got to court and he yet found me guilty, telling me, "Well, chalk it up to a lesson learned."
Another time as a 16 year old kid that first injustice came back into play to harm me again. A friend who was having to walk because his car had a bad battery made it as far as my house and being tired of carrying a battery asked if he could just sit it in our shed until the following day. So I told him no problem.
Before my friend made it back to pick up the battery the police had been to his house and charged with the theft of the battery because a neighbor of the person from whom he stole it had seen it and recognized him. he never told me he stole the battery but because i now had that false charge on my record when I was 15 they decided to charge me with Receiving and Concealing Stolen Property. And once again I told the judge what had happened and he told me, "Well, consider it a lesson learned."
They build up false pictures of people and then they wonder why they are so disrespected today. It was for reasons like that I decided to study law. And what I quickly figured out is that it was not the law which is bad, but the men who are in charge of the law to make decisions about the law.
They did that kind of stuff to me for years because I protested it's unfairness. John Q Public cannot know who I am by looking my record up on the Internet for they will only find how they painted me. How would you feel about having to live with that?
We understand more than you might imagine.
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Divine Insight
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Post #67
I'm not absolutely certain. But I think that to post to the Holy Huddle Room all you need to do is join the Christian Usergroup at the following link:
Christian Usergroup
Christian Usergroup
[center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
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Lionofthetribeofjudah
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Re: Is having sex with an animal a crime or even wrong?
Post #68[Replying to post 1 by jeager106]
Only a COMPLETELY Godless person could ever even consider that having sex with an animal is neither immoral nor criminal. To debate such a thing is only evidence of how morally corrupt this world truly is. The fact of the matter is that many many people are walking around filled with demons, and they swear that the nonsense they speak is their own viewpoint, when it is nothing more than the influence of the devil.
Sodom and Gomorrah is a perfect example of the judgment of God on such sexual immorality.
Jude 1:7
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
A righteous person would not need to consider whether this is right or wrong. The answer is a resounding YES!!!!!!!!!! Yes it is immoral, and yes it is criminal!
It is a direct violation of the law of the most high GOD. The judgment is death.
Exodus 22:19
"Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death."
And, just to be clear, this is talking about having sex with an animal.
Leviticus 18:22-23
"[22] Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
[23] Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion."
You can't be serious with this question!
Only a COMPLETELY Godless person could ever even consider that having sex with an animal is neither immoral nor criminal. To debate such a thing is only evidence of how morally corrupt this world truly is. The fact of the matter is that many many people are walking around filled with demons, and they swear that the nonsense they speak is their own viewpoint, when it is nothing more than the influence of the devil.
Sodom and Gomorrah is a perfect example of the judgment of God on such sexual immorality.
Jude 1:7
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
A righteous person would not need to consider whether this is right or wrong. The answer is a resounding YES!!!!!!!!!! Yes it is immoral, and yes it is criminal!
It is a direct violation of the law of the most high GOD. The judgment is death.
Exodus 22:19
"Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death."
And, just to be clear, this is talking about having sex with an animal.
Leviticus 18:22-23
"[22] Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
[23] Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion."
You can't be serious with this question!
Re: Is having sex with an animal a crime or even wrong?
Post #69[Replying to post 68 by Lionofthetribeofjudah]
Do you have anything more than bible verses?
In other words, "If the Bible had said beastiality was ok, THEN it'd be ok and only a completely godless person would think it was wrong", right?
If only the Bible had condemned slavery (or even considered it so much as an inconvenience) with that kind of tenacity, rather than acknowledging it and explaining where you're supposed to get your slaves from.
Given that it first addresses homosexuality, calling it an abomination, and then says neither to lie with a beast (calling it confusion & defilement), do you also think that homosexuality is as bad or worse than beastiality?
Then there's the whole "that was the old testament" argument that many Christians are fond of.
Do you have anything more than bible verses?
In other words, "If the Bible had said beastiality was ok, THEN it'd be ok and only a completely godless person would think it was wrong", right?
If only the Bible had condemned slavery (or even considered it so much as an inconvenience) with that kind of tenacity, rather than acknowledging it and explaining where you're supposed to get your slaves from.
Given that it first addresses homosexuality, calling it an abomination, and then says neither to lie with a beast (calling it confusion & defilement), do you also think that homosexuality is as bad or worse than beastiality?
Then there's the whole "that was the old testament" argument that many Christians are fond of.
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Zzyzx
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Post #70
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This entire post would be considered to not comply with the guidelines on preaching. Please read through the guidelines and abide by them.
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Moderator CommentLionofthetribeofjudah wrote: Only a COMPLETELY Godless person could ever even consider that having sex with an animal is neither immoral nor criminal. To debate such a thing is only evidence of how morally corrupt this world truly is. The fact of the matter is that many many people are walking around filled with demons, and they swear that the nonsense they speak is their own viewpoint, when it is nothing more than the influence of the devil.
This entire post would be considered to not comply with the guidelines on preaching. Please read through the guidelines and abide by them.
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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
