Is the universe a work of Art?

[OnceConvinced]

People, especially Christians like to claim that the universe is a work of art. Not only does this imply a creator, but it also implies that the universe it something to be marvelled and appreciated for its beauty and it’s detail.

To me, I’d say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What seems like beauty or indeed art is different for different people. I could imagine an alien visiting in this planet, looking at the oceans and the tree and the flowers and saying, “What a hell hole�, because they come from a place that is so different. Water might be like acid to them. The air might be toxic. In may be completely inhospitable to them and they might wonder why any God would ever create such a horrible place. Who knows?

I also have to wonder why creationists, when they create videos for documentaries, they only ever focus on the beauty and the wonders. A creationist video will unlikely show you the horrors of nature or indeed things that would indicate malevolent or incompetent design. Eg, they show us the snow flake and the butterfly and how beautiful and unique these are, but you will never see a male lion eating a cub so that it can have sex with the mother. You won’t see the horrible viruses and the suffering that comes from it. You only ever see the beauty and the wonder in a creationist video.

So…

Is the universe really a work of art?

[dbohm]

People, especially Christians like to claim that the universe is a work of art. Not only does this imply a creator, but it also implies that the universe it something to be marvelled and appreciated for its beauty and it’s detail.

To me, I’d say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What seems like beauty or indeed art is different for different people. I could imagine an alien visiting in this planet, looking at the oceans and the tree and the flowers and saying, “What a hell hole�, because they come from a place that is so different. Water might be like acid to them. The air might be toxic. In may be completely inhospitable to them and they might wonder why any God would ever create such a horrible place. Who knows?

I also have to wonder why creationists, when they create videos for documentaries, they only ever focus on the beauty and the wonders. A creationist video will unlikely show you the horrors of nature or indeed things that would indicate malevolent or incompetent design. Eg, they show us the snow flake and the butterfly and how beautiful and unique these are, but you will never see a male lion eating a cub so that it can have sex with the mother. You won’t see the horrible viruses and the suffering that comes from it. You only ever see the beauty and the wonder in a creationist video.

So…

Is the universe really a work of art?

Why there is suffering, is the problem for the theist.

Why there exist truth and beauty, is a problem for the atheist.

As Bluethread has mentioned in this thread, you show a tendency to anthropomorphize nature. What is evil behaviour in the human world is not necessarily evil in the animal world. Humans have the capacity to reason, animals do not. Humans have the capacity to direct their will according to their reasoning, animals can't.

"Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder" is one of those trite sayings like "Practice random acts of kindness" that sound good but at bottom are meaningless. If an art critic told me that Da Vinci's Mona Lisa is no better or worse than a Snoopy cartoon, I'd say there was something wrong with the art critic not the artwork.

[OnceConvinced]

Why there exist truth and beauty, is a problem for the atheist.

I don't see why it would be a problem for the Atheist.

With evolution you get both beautiful and ugly and both can be easily justified without having to have double standards.

As Bluethread has mentioned in this thread, you show a tendency to anthropomorphize nature. What is evil behaviour in the human world is not necessarily evil in the animal world.

Double standards.

Animals can do whatever they like and it's just instinct, but if humans do it then it's sin. That sounds like someone just wanting to defend against claims of malevolent design.

Really, humans are simply just another species of animal, just more intelligent. It's religious folk who try to make out as though Humans are something special and above all other animals, but then that seems to be in our nature.

Humans have the capacity to reason, animals do not.

Clearly not true. Some animals are clearly able to reason. They may not be as adept as humans at it, but then they aren't as intelligent.

Very small children are also unable to reason very well, but many Christians still claim they sin.

Humans have the capacity to direct their will according to their reasoning, animals can't.

Once again not true. You really need to watch a few more animal documentaries.

"Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder" is one of those trite sayings like "Practice random acts of kindness" that sound good but at bottom are meaningless. If an art critic told me that Da Vinci's Mona Lisa is no better or worse than a Snoopy cartoon, I'd say there was something wrong with the art critic not the artwork.

I myself would get way more enjoyment out of looking at a Snoopy cartoon than the Mona Lisa. The Mona Lisa for me would be something I could easily sell for the money, not put up on my wall at home. I'd rather have a poster of Beyoncé up there. Hell, I'd rather have one of those dog paintings with all the dogs sitting around playing cards than the Mona Lisa. The Mona Lisa may have been well crafted, but it's still just a picture of a woman and not even a very attractive one in my opinion.

The eye of the beholder? You bet! We all look at things differently. Are you trying to deny that we don't all look at things differently?

So what makes you think the universe is a work of art? If you indeed believe it is. It seems the majority of it is kind of like a waste land of gas and space, with a few balls of fire here and there. Most of it is completely void and unlivable.

[FarWanderer]

People, especially Christians like to claim that the universe is a work of art. Not only does this imply a creator, but it also implies that the universe it something to be marvelled and appreciated for its beauty and it’s detail.

I don't quite agree. Not all that is beautiful is art, and not all art is beautiful.

I think what makes art art is expression, not beauty. The world can be ugly as all hell and still be art.

Perhaps it's just that God's a bit disturbed.

[Baz]

There is a problem with the way a lot of people see the role of their god.
Many religions promote the idea that their god is responsible for everything, is aware of everything and can do anything.

Atheists tend to take the fact that nothing is perfect as evidence that there is no god, the idea that a god would have to be both perfect and only capable of perfection excludes the possibility of an all-powerful creator god in an imperfect world.



.

[OnceConvinced]

Atheists tend to take the fact that nothing is perfect as evidence that there is no god, the idea that a god would have to be both perfect and only capable of perfection excludes the possibility of an all-powerful creator god in an imperfect world.
.

It's believers who claim their God is perfect and his works are perfect. Atheists are simply using that criteria to judge the existence of their God.

I don't believe there are too many religions around that don't see their God as perfect.

[Hezekiah_Holbrooke]

[Replying to post 1 by OnceConvinced]

Art? Art who? I know an Art Hisserman. He didn't have anything to do with it though.

[Baz]

I don't believe there are too many religions around that don't see their God as perfect.

From a different angle, I see it more that there are too many religions around that see there view of god as perfect.



.

[Hatuey]

People, especially Christians like to claim that the universe is a work of art. …

Is the universe really a work of art?

Perhaps "god" is the being who observes and judges. Definitions always exclude in order to define. Perhaps in defining "good," "not-good/bad" becomes equally defined. Rather than god creating good and evil, it/she/he allows us to define as we will and eventually understand that the more precise the definition on one side, the more precise it is on the other. We can turn our back on evil, but that merely mystifies it and places it in the same well from which we draw in our attempt to seek new experiences and definitions of "good."

Any god worth his while could create good without creating evil, so perhaps if there is one out there, it is allowing us the chance to grow into "gods" who can do just that?

Art is our purpose; god's purpose, when described to me by those who believe, often seems evil incarnate. Something is off.

[Baz]

[Replying to post 18 by Hatuey]


Perhaps god doesn't judge at all.





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[Mr.Badham]

People, especially Christians like to claim that the universe is a work of art. Not only does this imply a creator, but it also implies that the universe it something to be marvelled and appreciated for its beauty and it’s detail.

To me, I’d say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What seems like beauty or indeed art is different for different people. I could imagine an alien visiting in this planet, looking at the oceans and the tree and the flowers and saying, “What a hell hole�, because they come from a place that is so different. Water might be like acid to them. The air might be toxic. In may be completely inhospitable to them and they might wonder why any God would ever create such a horrible place. Who knows?

I also have to wonder why creationists, when they create videos for documentaries, they only ever focus on the beauty and the wonders. A creationist video will unlikely show you the horrors of nature or indeed things that would indicate malevolent or incompetent design. Eg, they show us the snow flake and the butterfly and how beautiful and unique these are, but you will never see a male lion eating a cub so that it can have sex with the mother. You won’t see the horrible viruses and the suffering that comes from it. You only ever see the beauty and the wonder in a creationist video.

So…

Is the universe really a work of art?

What do I know about the universe?

We've evolved to see only what our eyes can show us. And they're good only for a very short distance. Sure I can see the moon, but I wear glasses, so I need help even to do that.

The "Universe as a work of Art"? Lets think about that for a second. Are you talking about what I know of the universe? What do I know about the universe? Not much really. A few Netflix documentaries, but other than that.... just the pictures.

Pictures? Wait, could the Universe appear as a work of art cause that's all I really know it as already? Does it appear as art cause we view it as pictures?