Hypothetical: You're god now

The Duke of Vandals · Post by **The Duke of Vandals** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:34 pm

I watched part of Bruce Almighty (I like Morgan Freeman...) and thought of a scenario I'd like to share.

God appears to you and hands you a magic wand that makes you all-knowing and all-powerful... but not quite as powerful and wise as god. He tells you that he wants to test you. You're tasked to create a hypothetical universe that exists outside our own universe. He tells you that you should use the parameters of our universe as a guide (i.e. Free will = good. Square circles = bad, etc.), but nor is he looking for a carbon copy of our universe.

The debate is to describe what universe you'd make, what attributes it would have, and why they're "good".

Your thoughts.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:46 pm

Madeline wrote:mmm...maybe try reading Revelation 21!

Revelation 21 wrote:Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, [...]

And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper.

It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west. And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

OOOO, that would be a wonderful universe to live in! A great and high wall and twelve gates so nicely arranged symmetrically.

Revelation 21 wrote:The one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates and its wall. The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal.

I've always wanted to live in a cube. No, wait, I do live in a cube!

Revelation 21 wrote:And he measured its wall, seventy-two yards, according to human measurements, which are also angelic measurements.

What a coincidence! You learn something every day.

Revelation 21 wrote:The material of the wall was jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. The foundation stones of the city wall were adorned with every kind of precious stone The first foundation stone was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald; the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth, chrysoprase; the eleventh, jacinth; the twelfth, amethyst.

Gold and precious stones are not really good building material.

Revelation 21 wrote:And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass. I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

What is the point of having walls and gates if you never close them?

No, I really don't think I get the point of your hypothetical universe.

Madeline · Post by **Madeline** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:55 pm

Oh McCulloch....*sigh*

McCulloch wrote:Gold and precious stones are not really good building material.

They are if the architect is God! The gold and precious stones are most likely earthly materials glorified.

McCulloch wrote:What is the point of having walls and gates if you never close them?

No, I really don't think I get the point of your hypothetical universe.

The gates are there to show accessibility. Too bad you don't believe in Heaven, I really want to see you there.

Love,
Madeline

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:05 pm

Madeline wrote:The gates are there to show accessibility. Too bad you don't believe in Heaven, I really want to see you there.

And what are the walls for?

HughDP · Post by **HughDP** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:42 am

McCulloch wrote:
Madeline wrote:The gates are there to show accessibility. Too bad you don't believe in Heaven, I really want to see you there.
And what are the walls for?

To keep the lawyers out probably.

Vladd44 · Post by **Vladd44** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:39 am

To keep the lawyers out probably.

Maybe there is something to this heaven idea.

Keef · Post by **Keef** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:28 pm

Madeline, can I share your heaven? Not in any cohabiting sense, but it'll save me building mine, and I can get on with philosophising about the details....

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:15 pm

Madeline wrote:The gates are there to show accessibility. Too bad you don't believe in Heaven, I really want to see you there.

McCulloch wrote:And what are the walls for?

HughDP wrote:To keep the lawyers out probably.

But won't they be in the lake of fire?

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:57 pm

The official vision of Heaven in Revelations seems rather odd.
It looks like God needs an architect and some contractors. What I wonder about is the poor taste.
I think the big useless pearls are just for looks. Granted it is extravagant and useless, just the kind of things the Lord loves.

Madeline:

They are if the architect is God! The gold and precious stones are most likely earthly materials glorified.

Why wouldn’t glorified mud do? Why have anything except glorified robs? Saints just walking about saying to each other;
“nice robe”,
“yours too, God gave me mine”,
“Oh really me too.”,
“nice robe”.

I would resign.

Madeline · Post by **Madeline** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:44 am

Well the book of Revelation has its fair share of visions and perhaps the precious stones are symbolic for heavenly materials unknown to us. God has promised me a spot there.

1 Corinthians 2:9 - But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Love,
Madeline

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:31 am

The authors of the Bible seemed to have a rather dry sense of creativity when it came to describing heaven. The reasons seems self evident to me though.

However, back to the main topic. I'm not sure what I would do about making another Universe. When I think about the different aspects of the universe with the certain fine "tunings" and intricacies, I'm struck by what I almost want to conclude as a long running of some sort "cosmic evolution".

To control moral outcomes and feelings would mean to intervene in the process of evolution, which has no doubt shaped our moral mechanisms. So I find it hard to say that no one would ever kill someone else in my uniuvere; as it's pretty much inevitable. It's kind of like wishing that a carnivorous diet never came about because of what it entails. There's no stopping it though, it's a niche that will be filled. I suppose I could always break the laws of my own universe and intervene all the time though :p