Are there any new arguments for God?

[daedalus 2.0]

It seems all the arguments for God have been offered and answered. There are also arguments against God, which Theists have tried to answer. The atheists are clearly winning in the area of logic, reason and rationality.

I haven't seen a new argument for God in years and would love for someone to offer one.

[daedalus 2.0]

Faith, you're trying too hard to argue with Daedalus here. Can't you see that he is trying to use an analogy to get you to think about the fallacies in your own beliefs?

I like to think of them as parables....

But, yes, Faith, I am showing that you can't on one hand claim you are a flawed and sinful human being, and then on the other, claim you have the ability to distinguish one supernatural being from another - especially when one is desperately trying to decieve you and the other is majestically silent.

[faith]

But they aren't promises by God, they are by Satan and made true by Satan to deceive you..

For what purpose? To make me good?

Aren't Buddhists good? Hari Krishnas? Hindus? Yet they are all decived by Satan, right? The trick of Satan's is to get you to worship the wrong God. Whether you do good works or not is beside the point. The important thing for him is to get you to reject the one true God. What if the one true God is Allah? In which case Satan has completely suckered you right in.

Faith, you're trying too hard to argue with Daedalus here. Can't you see that he is trying to use an analogy to get you to think about the fallacies in your own beliefs?

When Daedalus does not believe in any God, he would lack credability in trying to prove such things. You cannot have a wrong god if you do not believe any exists.
He was not speaking about wrong religions and different gods. He was saying that Satan was god and that God who teaches us to love is evil. Do look at the posts again. Which of the above religions teach that evil is the way to go?
The evidence does not fit your thesis.

Love Faith.xx

[faith]

daedalus 2.0"]

Faith, you're trying too hard to argue with Daedalus here. Can't you see that he is trying to use an analogy to get you to think about the fallacies in your own beliefs?

I like to think of them as parables....

His knowledge shows he doesn't know the Christian faith well enough to show me an analogy which would put a confident argument that he knows any fallacies for sure.

But, yes, Faith, I am showing that you can't on one hand claim you are a flawed and sinful human being, and then on the other, claim you have the ability to distinguish one supernatural being from another - especially when one is desperately trying to decieve you and the other is majestically silent.

But I am not flawed in Christ and the Spirit. For a believer has the Spirit and Truth.
Why would an ex-christian believe such a thing if he had really studied the truth of is faith? So if the being makes themselves known to us by doing what they said we should. How can we not know the difference of who has the real power?

Love Faith.xx

[Fallibleone]

You cannot have a wrong god if you do not believe any exists.

On the contrary. All you have is wrong gods.

[daedalus 2.0]

He was saying that Satan was god and that God who teaches us to love is evil. Do look at the posts again. Which of the above religions teach that evil is the way to go?
The evidence does not fit your thesis.

I didn't say that. I said Satan was responsible for the Bible NOT that he is God. Only God is God. But God is only known by the ones he choses as the true Faithful, only known to him. You can't know the true God through the Bible. In fact, you can't know God at all, but Satan is convincing most of the world they can, including you.

Why do you think you feel flawed in Christ and Spirit? Because you know you are wrong deep down. Think about it, if you really had God on your side, would you have doubt? Doubt is the work of the Devil!

Would you be flawed if God was in you? How could any darkness live in you if the Light was inside you? Your doubt, and your admission of flaw is evidence that you are questioning your belief. And you should, Satan is trying to get you away from God by writing a book.

It's a good book, good enough to fool many people, but why is it so hard to understand? Because Satan isn't God, he can't make what God could.

God would make His Book obvious, as obvious as the Noon Day Sun in a desert.

Cast Devil and his book, the Bible, aside! Your soul is at stake!

[faith]

daedalus 2.0"]

He was saying that Satan was god and that God who teaches us to love is evil. Do look at the posts again. Which of the above religions teach that evil is the way to go?
The evidence does not fit your thesis.

I didn't say that. I said Satan was responsible for the Bible NOT that he is God.

But the bible is about God and speaks only about God and his people. In the bible he teaches us to do good to each other and love each other. How can you say Satan is responsible for this?

Only God is God. But God is only known by the ones he choses as the true Faithful, only known to him. You can't know the true God through the Bible. In fact, you can't know God at all, but Satan is convincing most of the world they can, including you.

I have known God since before I ever read the bible.
Because like he did with Abraham, God can reveal himself to whom he choses.
You can know about the true God from the bible but you need his Spirit to teach you so that you know both God of the bible and what the bible tells you about God.

Why do you think you feel flawed in Christ and Spirit? Because you know you are wrong deep down. Think about it, if you really had God on your side, would you have doubt? Doubt is the work of the Devil!

I don't feel flawed, who said I felt flawed. I take it you felt flawed when a believer?
What doubt are you talking about?

Would you be flawed if God was in you? How could any darkness live in you if the Light was inside you? Your doubt, and your admission of flaw is evidence that you are questioning your belief. And you should, Satan is trying to get you away from God by writing a book.

Perhaps it is you who are questioning these things. I am not questioning them.
Because the Spirit assures us we belong to God.

Romans 8:15-16 (King James Version)
15.For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16.The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

It's a good book, good enough to fool many people, but why is it so hard to understand? Because Satan isn't God, he can't make what God could.

God would make His Book obvious, as obvious as the Noon Day Sun in a desert.

Cast Devil and his book, the Bible, aside! Your soul is at stake!

Over the last few days you have seen things revealed to you that you did not see before in scripture. You think that light can be for darkness and darkness for light.

Isaiah 5:20 (King James Version)
20.Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Jude 1:18-23.
18.How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

19.These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

20.But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

21.Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22.And of some have compassion, making a difference :

23.And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

God does not cause darkness by turning. Think again about what you are saying.
What would Satan gain from telling the world that light is dark and dark is light?
The bible tells us to love God and others by doing good. How can you say such things are darkness?

Love Faith.xx

[daedalus 2.0]

But the bible is about God and speaks only about God and his people. In the bible he teaches us to do good to each other and love each other. How can you say Satan is responsible for this?

Yes, and it's 1% a lie. Would you expect Satan to write a book about himself and be truthful?

That 1% is what will send you to Hell for eternity.

You keep referencing the Bible as if it is true. You are referencing one big lie.

I have known God since before I ever read the bible.

YES! You didn't need the Bible! But now that you read the Bible you think it is true, when in truth, it was written by Satan to decieve.

Because like he did with Abraham, God can reveal himself to whom he choses.
You can know about the true God from the bible but you need his Spirit to teach you so that you know both God of the bible and what the bible tells you about God.

Nope, God would never need to use a book, only Satan.

I don't feel flawed, who said I felt flawed. I take it you felt flawed when a believer?
What doubt are you talking about?

You are perfect? See what Satan has done? Made you believe you are better than Jesus!

Perhaps it is you who are questioning these things. I am not questioning them.
Because the Spirit assures us we belong to God.

That Spirit is Satan decieving you.

Bible quotes here

Why do you keep quoting Satan's book?

Over the last few days you have seen things revealed to you that you did not see before in scripture. You think that light can be for darkness and darkness for light.

And even before I knew you, I knew you were a tool of Satan. I had revelation, as clear as an angels voice telling me that I would meet one of Satan's tools. The voice said, "Satan will ride the Ether, but seem as Faith".

What else could it mean but the internet and you?

Bible quotes

God does not cause darkness by turning. Think again about what you are saying.
What would Satan gain from telling the world that light is dark and dark is light?
The bible tells us to love God and others by doing good. How can you say such things are darkness?

What would oyu expect Satan to do? Say, "Hey, I'm Satan, do what I say and burn in Hell!"

No, he would say EXACTLY what you are saying. He would promise eternal life and power of God. He would promise Light over Darkness. He would tempt you by offering you all the Good things you would ever want: to be with God.

And, then, after you have made yourself believe you are following God, you would die and God will say: "You knew me before the Bible, but you were turned away from me by the Bible. Satan was clever and you lacked Faith."

The Bible is Evil. It is a book by Satan and you offend God when you quote it.

But I imagine that is your intent. To make a mockery of God to His face.

[McCulloch]

I think that we are drifting off the topic being debated. There are a finite number of arguments for believing in God. John Paulos counts twelve. All of these arguments and the subtle and not so subtle variations of them can be shown to be fundamentally flawed.
So the question really boils down for the believer to either

1. they disagree with the analysis showing the weaknesses in these common arguments for God's existence or
2. they have some new or novel argument.

If (1) then perhaps they might specify which of the arguments they feel still has merit. If (2) then please share, the poster of the OP is getting tired of shooting down the same old arguments and would like some new targets.

NB. I'll look up Paulos' list later and post it for reference.

[McCulloch]

To put this thread into context, here are the old arguments for God

1. Four Classical Arguments
2. The Argument from First Cause
   1. Everything must have a cause
   2. Causal Chains cannot go on forever
   3. Therefore there must be a first cause, and that is God.
3. The Argument from Design
   1. Something in the universe or the universe itself seems to be designed
   2. Therefore a designer must exist and that is God
4. The Argument from the Anthropic Principle
   1. The universal constants are fine tuned for the existence of humans.
   2. Therefore there must have been a God to fine tune the universe for our existence
5. The Ontological Argument
   1. God is a being than which nothing greater can be conceived.
   2. Assume that God does not exist.
   3. An existent God is a being greater than a non-existent one
   4. If God did not exist, then we could conceive of a being greater than God -- A God that exists.
   5. This is a contradiction, therefore (2) must be false and God exists
   Courtesy of Saint Anselm.

1. Four Subjective Arguments
2. The Argument from Coincidence
   1. There have been some remarkable coincidences.
   2. There must be a reason for those coincidences.
   3. That reason is God.
3. The Argument from Prophecy
   1. A holy book makes prophesies.
   2. A holy book or the adherents of it report that those prophesies have come true.
   3. Therefore whatever else is in the book, such as the claim that God exists must be true.
4. The Argument from Subjectivity and Faith
   1. People feel sure that God exists.
   2. Therefore God exists.
5. The Argument from Divine Interventions, Miracles and such
   1. A miracle occurs, perhaps as a response to prayer.
   2. God exists as evidenced by the divine intervention

1. Four Psycho-Mathematical Arguments
2. The Argument from Redefinition
   1. God is Love or Goodness or some other such thing.
   2. Love, goodness or whatever, clearly exists.
   3. Therefore God exists.
3. The Argument from Cognitive Tendency
   1. Some cognitive tendencies suggest the existence of an all-powerful agent.
   2. God must be that all-powerful agent
4. The Universality Argument and Morality
   1. Across cultures, the similarities in moral values are quite apparent.
   2. They must come from God
5. The Gambling Argument
   1. We can choose to believe or not in God.
   2. If we choose wrongly then negative consequences of choosing to disbelieve are greater than the negative consequences of choosing to believe.
   3. Therefore it is prudent to believe.

The classifications and much of the synopses are from John Allen Paulos, Professor of Mathematics at Temple University, in his book Irreligion, A Mathematician Explains Why the Arguments for God Just Don't Add Up As fallacious as these might seem, these seriously are the arguments put forth by philosophers, theologians, saints, apologists and preachers.

These are the old arguments for God. There are numerous subtle variations on them, but essentially, as far as I can tell those who claim that God exists do so based on one or more of these arguments and nothing else. Am I wrong? Is there some other reason that I should believe that there is a God?

[Ilias Ahmad]

The Gambling Argument
We can choose to believe or not in God.
If we choose wrongly then negative consequences of choosing to disbelieve are greater than the negative consequences of choosing to believe.
Therefore it is prudent to believe.

Even though I am a firm believer in the existence of God, this argument is pure stupidity.

Imagine someone says if you don't believe that life exists on some planet millions of lightyears away you will face "negative consequences", therefore it is prudent to believe!!!