Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

[Rational Atheist]

Here is a simple, yet powerful, argument against the idea that we 'freely' choose our actions.

1. Our thoughts determine our choices.

2. We do not freely choose our thoughts.

3. Therefore, our choices cannot be free.

I don't think anyone would object to premise 1, especially those who believe in free will, since by definition, a "free" choice, if it could exist, requires a person to consciously make it, which by definition involves thought. Premise 2 may be controversial to some, but with a simple thought experiment, it can be proven to be true. If a person could freely choose their thoughts, then they would have to be able to consciously choose what they were going to think before actually thinking it. In other words, there would have to be a time before a person thinks a thought that that thought was consciously chosen by a person, which literally entails the necessity of being able to think a thought before one thinks it. This, of course, is a logical contradiction. Ergo, free will does not exist.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #197]

I mean to say that we are aware of the thought that arises in us from us and at the same time if we wish to have the thought.

Are you saying that all thought originates/is emergent of our brains?

No, I believe it originates in the soul and is apprehended by the brain, so to speak.

So are you saying we are the brain doing the apprehending?

I believe that we as human beings, the human consciousness is the one person of the soul and body. The soul united with the person of the body is what human consciousness is. We as a human person are both the soul from which the thought originates and simultaneously decide to have the thought and the body which apprehends it.

So you believe that all thoughts a personality has, derive from the personality itself?

I am not sure exactly what that sentence is trying to convey. I will answer the best I can, though. I believe the human personality is caused by the soul uniting with the body. The thoughts it has arisen in the soul and simultaneously the soul decides if it wishes to have that thought. If it wishes to have the thought then it is apprehended in the person.

[William]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #197]

I mean to say that we are aware of the thought that arises in us from us and at the same time if we wish to have the thought.

Are you saying that all thought originates/is emergent of our brains?

No, I believe it originates in the soul and is apprehended by the brain, so to speak.

So are you saying we are the brain doing the apprehending?

I believe that we as human beings, the human consciousness is the one person of the soul and body. The soul united with the person of the body is what human consciousness is. We as a human person are both the soul from which the thought originates and simultaneously decide to have the thought and the body which apprehends it.

So you believe that all thoughts a personality has, derive from the personality itself?

I am not sure exactly what that sentence is trying to convey. I will answer the best I can, though. I believe the human personality is caused by the soul uniting with the body. The thoughts it has arisen in the soul and simultaneously the soul decides if it wishes to have that thought. If it wishes to have the thought then it is apprehended in the person.

What is "the soul?" Is the human personality the soul?

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #197]

I mean to say that we are aware of the thought that arises in us from us and at the same time if we wish to have the thought.

Are you saying that all thought originates/is emergent of our brains?

No, I believe it originates in the soul and is apprehended by the brain, so to speak.

So are you saying we are the brain doing the apprehending?

I believe that we as human beings, the human consciousness is the one person of the soul and body. The soul united with the person of the body is what human consciousness is. We as a human person are both the soul from which the thought originates and simultaneously decide to have the thought and the body which apprehends it.

So you believe that all thoughts a personality has, derive from the personality itself?

I am not sure exactly what that sentence is trying to convey. I will answer the best I can, though. I believe the human personality is caused by the soul uniting with the body. The thoughts it has arisen in the soul and simultaneously the soul decides if it wishes to have that thought. If it wishes to have the thought then it is apprehended in the person.

What is "the soul?" Is the human personality the soul?

No. The human personality is the person that exists when the soul is united with the body.

The soul is the metaphysical being, the rational being.

[Miles]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #197]

I mean to say that we are aware of the thought that arises in us from us and at the same time if we wish to have the thought.

Are you saying that all thought originates/is emergent of our brains?

No, I believe it originates in the soul and is apprehended by the brain, so to speak.

So are you saying we are the brain doing the apprehending?

I believe that we as human beings, the human consciousness is the one person of the soul and body. The soul united with the person of the body is what human consciousness is. We as a human person are both the soul from which the thought originates and simultaneously decide to have the thought and the body which apprehends it.

So you believe that all thoughts a personality has, derive from the personality itself?

I am not sure exactly what that sentence is trying to convey. I will answer the best I can, though. I believe the human personality is caused by the soul uniting with the body. The thoughts it has arisen in the soul and simultaneously the soul decides if it wishes to have that thought. If it wishes to have the thought then it is apprehended in the person.

What is "the soul?" Is the human personality the soul?

No. The human personality is the person that exists when the soul is united with the body.

I take it then that the soul can be ununited with the body, like existing on its own. So, where would it reside?

The soul is the metaphysical being, the rational being.

You say "the rational being." Why is it necessary the soul be rational, and where would irrationality call home?

.

[William]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #197]

I mean to say that we are aware of the thought that arises in us from us and at the same time if we wish to have the thought.

Are you saying that all thought originates/is emergent of our brains?

No, I believe it originates in the soul and is apprehended by the brain, so to speak.

So are you saying we are the brain doing the apprehending?

I believe that we as human beings, the human consciousness is the one person of the soul and body. The soul united with the person of the body is what human consciousness is. We as a human person are both the soul from which the thought originates and simultaneously decide to have the thought and the body which apprehends it.

So you believe that all thoughts a personality has, derive from the personality itself?

I am not sure exactly what that sentence is trying to convey. I will answer the best I can, though. I believe the human personality is caused by the soul uniting with the body. The thoughts it has arisen in the soul and simultaneously the soul decides if it wishes to have that thought. If it wishes to have the thought then it is apprehended in the person.

What is "the soul?" Is the human personality the soul?

No. The human personality is the person that exists when the soul is united with the body.

The soul is the metaphysical being, the rational being.

The soul appears to be imbued with its own personage...intelligence - awareness - things which we identify with personality.

Is the rational being who we are? If not...what is the relationship between human personality and soul?

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Miles in post #204]

I take it then that the soul can be ununited with the body, like existing on its own. So, where would it reside?

It would reside in the metaphysical realm.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to William in post #205]

The soul appears to be imbued with its own personage...intelligence - awareness - things which we identify with personality.

Is the rational being who we are? If not...what is the relationship between human personality and soul?

Who we are right now is a human being, which I explained already. But when we are not united with a body, yes, we are a rational being, but being metaphysical we do not think like we do when united with a material body. A lot of how we think right now is do to us having these senses that make us aware of existing in a place and time.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #204]

I take it then that the soul can be ununited with the body, like existing on its own. So, where would it reside?

It would reside in the metaphysical realm.

With all the other ununited souls?




And where is the metaphysical realm located?



.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Miles in post #208]

And where is the metaphysical realm located?

That question doesn't make sense. Suppose that mathematical realism is true. It would be like asking where numbers are located. It would be like asking where are platonic forms located.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #208]

And where is the metaphysical realm located?

That question doesn't make sense. Suppose that mathematical realism is true. It would be like asking where numbers are located. It would be like asking where are platonic forms located.

Saying "It would reside in the metaphysical realm" implies there is a place to be inside of, and all I'm wondering is where this place is. And it's nothing like asking where numbers are located. Numbers and numerical knowledge, including number concepts and arithmetic procedures, signify abstract symbol manipulation comprised of abstract conditions that exist without need of thought or a specific realm. The area of semicircle = 1/2 (π r²) will always be true even if there's no one in the universe to express it or understand it.

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