What is Real? How do YOU define Real?

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Compassionist
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What is Real? How do YOU define Real?

Post #1

Post by Compassionist »

As Morpheus asked in 'The Matrix', "What is real? How do you define real?"

We don't know reality directly. We appear to know our sensory-cognitive-affective model of reality as it appears to be generated by the brain. One is considered psychotic if one perceives things, not perceived by others.

Are you familiar with the concept of Maya in Hinduism? Maya means illusion and states that this perceptual world that is sensed by our senses and measured by science is an illusion i.e. not what it seems. It is impossible to disprove it. This is why I am a strong agnostic about the ultimate nature of reality although I am not agnostic about the apparent nature of reality.

Does the workings of the brain produce the mind or is the brain an illusion perceived by an immortal soul? How would I know for sure? How would you or anyone else know for sure? Do any of you really exist or are you all part of a dream or a hallucination I am experiencing? :lol:

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tickitytak
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Post #81

Post by tickitytak »

How do we know reason is reasonable? To prove it is circular and to disprove it is self-contradicting. The same pretty much applies to reality. We can't prove that there are other realities more real than this one, just as we can't prove that there aren't. To question is self-defeating and pointless because our interpretation of what is real depends on the presupposition of reason.

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Post #82

Post by ConiectoErgoSum »

i once read a quote that said all great truths are circular.

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Tuddrussell
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Post #83

Post by Tuddrussell »

ConiectoErgoSum wrote:i once read a quote that said all great truths are circular.
...And I once read that chess is like ballet, only with more explosions.

"MY NAME IS POKEY THE PENGUIN I LOVE CHESS!! IT IS LIKE BALLET ONLY WITH MORE EXPLOSIONS!" -Pokey the Penguin.

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tickitytak
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Post #84

Post by tickitytak »

ConiectoErgoSum wrote:i once read a quote that said all great truths are circular.
That quote is wrong because I said it's wrong.

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Post #85

Post by ConiectoErgoSum »

and yet you don't exist, therefore no one says it's wrong, so it must be right.

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Cathar1950
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Post #86

Post by Cathar1950 »

tickitytak wrote:How do we know reason is reasonable? To prove it is circular and to disprove it is self-contradicting. The same pretty much applies to reality. We can't prove that there are other realities more real than this one, just as we can't prove that there aren't. To question is self-defeating and pointless because our interpretation of what is real depends on the presupposition of reason.
Ultimately it comes from our experiences of the world. We find it reasonable in that there is a "why" to how things work. Explanation requires reasons.
I suppose the other animals might just take it for granted that the world works and they have evolved to fit but I hope it is only humans that can imagine all they feel and experience is just pointless and self defeating. Some realities don't need to be proven to understand and some superstitions should.

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Post #87

Post by Furrowed Brow »

tickitytak wrote:How do we know reason is reasonable?
There are many different logical systems with their own system of rules. The most obvious ones that come to mind are Boolean algebra (aka propositional calculus), intuitionist logic, paraconsistent logic, predicate calculus, modal logic (of which there are dozens of competing systems), and many different many valued logic or fuzzy logics. Some of these logics are in direct competition over which rules of thinking are correct.

Non formal arguments can unwittingly range across several logics. Mostly folk argue within the propositional calculus, predicate logic and modal logic and there are some standard rules like modus ponens. Whilst arguing informally it is sometimes helpful to be explicit as to which logic an argument is supposed be formed in.

Which are reasonable? Well they are each reasonable according to who you speak to. As for how do we know some rule is reasonable that usually comes down to self evidence. We look at a rule and cannot think of way it can possibly be false. Just as the 1 minus 1 = 0: whichever way we look at if we have 1 and take 1 away that leaves nothing. Rules like “If p then q, and p is true therefore q� is also self evidently correct. These rules show the limits of how we think. It is not possible to provide further evidence or supporting argument for them. You either get them or you don’t....and you are supposed to get them because they are deemed to be basic rules of thinking. Someone may try to insist that “if p then q, and p is true the q is false� but that just don’t make sense.....I hope.

Other rules - depending on thre system you are working in - are controversial to varying degrees. There are also various paradoxes and unintuitive results drawn from otherwise self evidently correct rules that logicians shrug their shoulders and accept. That there are so many logics is perhaps indicative that some logicians at some point are being unreasonable, and the paradoxes maybe a hint that we have to figured out all the rules yet. the idea that there should be one universal logic underlying all logics is appealing.

There are also many well understood fallacies which are really a combination of formal and less formal argument fallacies. Again their unreasonableness is usually self evident. I'll also suggest that often the problem in less formal debate comes down to a collection of less formal fallacies like "poisoning the well" and "no true Scotsman".

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Post #88

Post by sineporf »

Dreammaker Twilight wrote:Nothing is "real". Nothing has been proven to "exist". We might as well be having a mass hallucination. Or we might as well be AI robots programmed to think we're human. In fact, when faced with all the possibilities, the probability of actually being a human living in the world we "see" are slim indeed.
how slim are they? do you know? In fact no one knows, so we have to assume that we have a half-and-half chance of existing. We operate in the 50% that everything is real. It's the only way we can progress. Dwelling on such matters is futile because there isn't a thing we can do about it. Life is "truly" what you make of it. If you believe that it's a mass hallucination, so be it. You won't know when you die, so why bother? Just do the best with what you have, and if the world doesn't treat you fairly, start a revolution! I'd like to do so by getting a book published.

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Post #89

Post by Compassionist »

sineporf wrote:
Dreammaker Twilight wrote:Nothing is "real". Nothing has been proven to "exist". We might as well be having a mass hallucination. Or we might as well be AI robots programmed to think we're human. In fact, when faced with all the possibilities, the probability of actually being a human living in the world we "see" are slim indeed.
how slim are they? do you know? In fact no one knows, so we have to assume that we have a half-and-half chance of existing. We operate in the 50% that everything is real. It's the only way we can progress. Dwelling on such matters is futile because there isn't a thing we can do about it. Life is "truly" what you make of it. If you believe that it's a mass hallucination, so be it. You won't know when you die, so why bother? Just do the best with what you have, and if the world doesn't treat you fairly, start a revolution! I'd like to do so by getting a book published.
Well said. I look forward to reading you book. You can try Lulu and Create Space if you want to self-publish. I also recommend Can With Candle.

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reality

Post #90

Post by nancyd »

Considering dreams might give us a good idea of what is real. Your body is chemically paralyzed during sleep for a good reason. Your brain really believes that whats going on in a dream is real and we would all be doing some crazy things if not for that immobility during REM sleep. Is it possible that the "reality" we experience daily could be interpreted as a dream on another level of consciousness?

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