Is there a selfless action?

[ConiectoErgoSum]

Is there really a truly selfless, did-it-for-goodness-sake action one can do?

if one helps someone, without any financial or social benefit to themself, then is it just the good feeling you get that motivates you, or is it something else?

[FinalEnigma]

Is there really a truly selfless, did-it-for-goodness-sake action one can do?

if one helps someone, without any financial or social benefit to themself, then is it just the good feeling you get that motivates you, or is it something else?

I think when you reach the point where you are arguing over whether someone did it for it's own sake, or for the good feeling, you're starting to get silly. how do you know they didn't do it because their mom told them it was nice and made 'em do it when they were 5?

also, are you forgetting the classic grenade-jump-onner?

[ConiectoErgoSum]

nope didn't forget the grenade-jump-onner.

good one!

but as far as debating it, whether its silly is debatable (yet another debate all together). motives drive future actions, so the motives matter. analyzing the motives could mean that we recognize poor ones. someone with good motives for doing something is likely to do a more thorough job. too often have i had volunteers work for me that have the best intentions, but don't do the job right. people think that, because they are helping, they are somehow entitled to rewards, respect, and praise.

[FinalEnigma]

nope didn't forget the grenade-jump-onner.

good one!

but as far as debating it, whether its silly is debatable (yet another debate all together). motives drive future actions, so the motives matter. analyzing the motives could mean that we recognize poor ones. someone with good motives for doing something is likely to do a more thorough job. too often have i had volunteers work for me that have the best intentions, but don't do the job right. people think that, because they are helping, they are somehow entitled to rewards, respect, and praise.

Do you differentiate between good intentions and good motivation?

also, of course regarding the grenade-jump-onner. what is your position regarding whether his actions are selfless?

[ConiectoErgoSum]

i think good intentions are required for good motivation, but that there are other things required as well. as for what these other things are, that is the question at hand. perhaps "selfless" is too limiting; i'll settle for "good".

the grenade jumper could be considered selfless, depending on the scenario. if he thinks he'll be rewarded in heaven, then its not entirely selfless. unless he does it for other reasons besides the reward he thinks he'll get.

maybe he does it because all our souls are intertwined; pain to one is pain to another. he sacrifices himself as an arm would let itself be cut off to save the other arm. it's not that he's selfless, he just considers the other a part of his self. in that case 'selfish' isn't bad at all. maybe selflessness, by definition, is defining yourself as part of a greater self.

[Devilry]

Of course, you could argue that any selfless act, no matter how we see it, is ultimately done for the pleasure it brings when we do it.

Yet I question: Why would we even feel pleasure from selfless acts in the first place?

What is the point of feeling good when you donate your money to someone? What is the point of feeling all noble when you choose to die for your country? Clearly, dying for the concept of a greater good wouldn't be beneficial to you as an individual. So why would humans be programmed to so senselessly incline towards putting themselves at a disadvantage by making them feel good about it?

The answer is because selflessness exists. It does not exist as an action, but as the greater concept of being the motivation to drive you to do something that benefits someone else at your expense.

[ChaosBorders]

The answer is because selflessness exists. It does not exist as an action, but as the greater concept of being the motivation to drive you to do something that benefits someone else at your expense.

I'd say more accurately the answer is evolutionary psychology. Feeling good when we do something 'selfless' promotes doing 'selfless' things more, which promotes the continuation of the species as a whole.

[bjs]

Speaking from my own life, I don’t know if I have ever acted out of purely good and self-less motivations. I have tried to, but the desire to try is itself a complex issue that may not be pure. I think that most of the time I am motivated partly by selfless desires and partly by selfish desires.

Kant said that the only way to do something truly good is if you don’t enjoy it and don’t benefit from it. Aristotle said that that if you don’t enjoy doing good then do it anyway – the more you do it the more you will enjoy it. It think there is truth in both statements, though I recognize that they contradict each other (paradox is a part of life).

[McCulloch]

Speaking from my own life, I don’t know if I have ever acted out of purely good and self-less motivations. I have tried to, but the desire to try is itself a complex issue that may not be pure. I think that most of the time I am motivated partly by selfless desires and partly by selfish desires.

Reflecting on Devilry's question, why have you tried to act out of purely good motives? We have this sense that we aught to be selfless. Does catering to that innate sense, make us feel better about ourselves? Why?

[thatoneguy]

Speaking from my own life, I don’t know if I have ever acted out of purely good and self-less motivations. I have tried to, but the desire to try is itself a complex issue that may not be pure. I think that most of the time I am motivated partly by selfless desires and partly by selfish desires.

Reflecting on Devilry's question, why have you tried to act out of purely good motives? We have this sense that we aught to be selfless. Does catering to that innate sense, make us feel better about ourselves? Why?

Yes, we are either programed or raised to feel that way.

All actions have a reason. If there's a reason, then there's a motivation. If there's a motivation, then something within the person is satisfied when they perform the action, and so there will always be at least some portion of selfishness in any action. However there are times where this portion could be negligible.