Do we have a choice in what we think or believe?

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:44 am

Do we have a choice in what we think or believe?
Can we chose to believe differently than we do?

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:48 am

Try as I might, I just cannot choose to believe something.

cnorman18 · Post by **cnorman18** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:44 am

I think one can choose whether or not to listen to a given argument; but whether or not one honestly finds that argument persuasive -- I don't think that's a matter of choice. The "choice" would be in choosing not to think about it. In my experience, most people reach their conclusions on these matters around their sophomore year and aren't much inclined to examine them forever after.

Even when one is confronted with opposing arguments and chooses to think about them, I think the issue might be more about the negation of belief -- of "I CAN'T believe" something -- as opposed to positive belief. One might be emotionally unable to accept the proposition that one's spouse has been unfaithful, for instance, in spite of all the evidence offered. One would rather believe that the photographs have been faked. I don't think that's a matter of "choice."

I suspect that some may be emotionally unable to accept the proposition that there is no God. That's not a matter of objectively weighing evidence and making a "choice" -- but then, there are no photographs, either. It's rather predictable that one would retain -- or "cling to," if you like -- a belief that one finds comfortable and comforting and even reasonable, absent a definitive and overriding reason to abandon it. It may not be logical to demand proof of the negative, but it's not emotionally realistic to expect anyone to alter his beliefs without it, either; and it's hardly logical to expect humans to behave as anything other than humans, as opposed to Vulcans. Like it or not, emotional investment in one's beliefs is a part of objective reality, too.

Might it be impossible, for SOME, to emotionally accept the proposition that there IS a God? I think that's inarguably true; and the antipathy some people feel to religion and religious people might very well factor into that. That's not a matter of choice, nor of objectively weighing the evidence, either, even if that might be what it subjectively feels like. The insidious thing about prejudice is that one normally doesn't realize that one holds it, or that it's unjustified, or that it is affecting one's judgment. Certainly that's not ALWAYS the case, any more than it is with ALL theists. Maybe the clue is certainty. Notice the last quote in my signature.

I've long felt that the biggest hurdle to actual discussion of these issues is smugness and superiority -- "I look at things objectively/spiritually/rationally, and you don't" -- and we can, and do, see that from both sides. I think prejudice, stereotype, emotional investment, and ego can play into atheism as much as into fundamentalism, and I don't think that "choice" is germane to the question very often, if indeed it ever is.

EduChris · Post by **EduChris** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:44 pm

McCulloch wrote:Try as I might, I just cannot choose to believe something.

When confronted with a situation where we lack knowledge, we cannot force ourselves to simply believe that we know what we don't. But we can choose to examine the available alternatives, along with the consequences which logically flow from each alternative, and then provisionally adopt some course of action over another based on our analysis. Over time, if we encounter no serious obstacle or challenge to the course of action we have provisionally chosen, we may find that what was initially a hypothesis--a leap of faith--will gradually become more like a belief.

In other words, an open mind and a chosen course of action (along with its concommitant cost-benefit ratio) can indeed influence our beliefs.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:39 pm

On this I unreservedly agree with EduChris, except with his linking the idea of faith to hypothesis. As I understand hypothesis, it is an idea which might be true, which is yet to be subject to testing. Faith, on the other hand, is the fallacy of attributing more certainty to the truth of an idea than is warranted by the available evidence.

Baz · Post by **Baz** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:11 pm

To me it’s a lot to do with being honest with yourself and understanding (for want of a better description) that you are pretty much what you eat. At any given time I don’t think I have a choice in what I believe. I can however attempt to eat a balanced diet.

When one holds general principles it’s easy to respond as part of a group or in a way previously to something similar. I find it hard to allow myself time to really examine what exactly I believe about each individual question, or to gain more information on the subject.
So long as I am comfortable with my belief consciously trying to impose change is illogical to me. What I believe to be true serves me well in my life.
But when I am honest with myself I have to admit to knowing nothing, so it would also be logical to assume that some if not all my beliefs are untrue.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:11 am

Baz, surely you overstate the case by saying that it would be possible that all of your beliefs could be untrue. Some - definitely. Any - possibly. All - not really.

Lux · Post by **Lux** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:07 pm

If anything, we can choose to be open-minded and consider new possibilities. Whether or not these possibilities make sense to each of us is not really in our control. I don't think I can choose what I believe any more than I could choose to like onions.

Baz · Post by **Baz** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:37 pm

Lucia wrote:I don't think I can choose what I believe any more than I could choose to like onions.

You don't like onions!

Baz · Post by **Baz** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:51 pm

McCulloch wrote:Baz, surely you overstate the case by saying that it would be possible that all of your beliefs could be untrue. Some - definitely. Any - possibly. All - not really.

Mmm.

I don’t know, some hold the view that we are part of a multiverse (please add correct spelling) where every conceivable reality exists somewhere, and who am I to say they are wrong?

On the bright side if that was the case somewhere everything I believe would be true.