Are We God's Pets?

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2ndRateMind
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Are We God's Pets?

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Post by 2ndRateMind »

So, I don't have any pets, right now. It would complicate my simple life beyond my capacity to cope. But as a child, we had a dog (Miranda) and a cat (Rufus). And I loved them both. We fed them, and bought them treats, and toys to keep them occupied and exercised.

I can't help wondering though, if God's relationship to us is not all that different to our relationship to pets. We love them, as He loves us; not as equals, but as subordinates to be pandered to and cared for and indulged, to keep them occupied and 'happy'.

If this is right, the cosmic battle between Good and Evil has no significance beyond a situation set up to engage us, like a pet toy, and provide us opportunity to develop virtue and forego vice. It is an amusing passtime, for those who accept the mission against evil, but maybe does not really matter in the long run of things, at all.

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Re: Are We God's Pets?

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Post by ttruscott »

2ndRateMind wrote:I can't help wondering though, if God's relationship to us is not all that different to our relationship to pets.
Would you marry a pet hping for the full communion of fellowship of spirits a heavenly marriage implies?
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Are We God's Pets?

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Post by 2ndRateMind »

ttruscott wrote:
2ndRateMind wrote:I can't help wondering though, if God's relationship to us is not all that different to our relationship to pets.
Would you marry a pet hping for the full communion of fellowship of spirits a heavenly marriage implies?
If you have a point to make, make it. Don't just allude to it. That leaves none of us any the wiser.

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Re: Are We God's Pets?

Post #4

Post by marco »

2ndRateMind wrote:
I can't help wondering though, if God's relationship to us is not all that different to our relationship to pets. We love them, as He loves us; not as equals, but as subordinates to be pandered to and cared for and indulged, to keep them occupied and 'happy'.
I would stop wondering, 2ndRM. Pets, except those belonging to cruel owners, are usually treated well, sometimes spoiled, always loved and they return that affection. There is no similarity here with us and God. We stumble in the darkness but helped by a long procession of clever humans, we have, most of us, a comfortable if short existence. No one brushes our hair; no one make sure we have water -some of us don't. We run around in exactly the fashion as if we were the lucky products of some chance.

So no, pets we are not. Manna does not fall from heaven.

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Re: Are We God's Pets?

Post #5

Post by 2ndRateMind »

marco wrote:
2ndRateMind wrote:
I can't help wondering though, if God's relationship to us is not all that different to our relationship to pets. We love them, as He loves us; not as equals, but as subordinates to be pandered to and cared for and indulged, to keep them occupied and 'happy'.
I would stop wondering, 2ndRM. Pets, except those belonging to cruel owners, are usually treated well, sometimes spoiled, always loved and they return that affection. There is no similarity here with us and God. We stumble in the darkness but helped by a long procession of clever humans, we have, most of us, a comfortable if short existence. No one brushes our hair; no one make sure we have water -some of us don't. We run around in exactly the fashion as if we were the lucky products of some chance.

So no, pets we are not. Manna does not fall from heaven.
Yes, I take your point. God does not stroke our hair, or pat us on the back, or provide us with food we have not worked to produce. Maybe that is for our own good. Maybe He wants us to stand on our own two feet, and, come Judgment Day, look Him in the eye, responsible for ourselves and our own spiritual stature, beholden neither to Him nor anyone else. But, I still wonder if this existential war of good against evil is not merely akin to a dog's chew toy; something to keep us engaged and occupied, without which we would become bored and complacent, and therefore, in the end, without any more substantial importance than a hamster's exercise wheel.

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Re: Are We God's Pets?

Post #6

Post by marco »

2ndRateMind wrote:
Yes, I take your point. God does not stroke our hair, or pat us on the back, or provide us with food we have not worked to produce. Maybe that is for our own good. Maybe He wants us to stand on our own two feet, and, come Judgment Day, look Him in the eye, responsible for ourselves and our own spiritual stature, beholden neither to Him nor anyone else. But, I still wonder if this existential war of good against evil is not merely akin to a dog's chew toy; something to keep us engaged and occupied, without which we would become bored and complacent, and therefore, in the end, without any more substantial importance than a hamster's exercise wheel.
We don't all need our hair stroked or our confidence boosted. Some people like Newton are inspired by falling apples rather than tempted to eat them. The idea it's all a great test and we'll get the results on Judgment Day is exciting, unless you are a small infant, drinking dirty water, doomed to die like a mayfly. Or someone who has been born with no power to look after their own welfare; or someone who has lived an exemplary life only to be humiliated by some debilitating senile infirmity in the winter of their existence. It may be God plays all these cards even if he doesn't (as Einstein said) play dice. I have my doubts. It looks very much like a dice game to me and some poor souls never throw a six.

If we are God's pets there's a case for reporting him to some organisation that deals with cruel owners.

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Post #7

Post by bluethread »

We may have been similar to pets in the garden. However, we have gone farel. However, some of us hang around the ranch, pay attention to the feeding schedule and do our best to get along with the other animals.

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Post #8

Post by marco »

bluethread wrote: We may have been similar to pets in the garden. However, we have gone farel. However, some of us hang around the ranch, pay attention to the feeding schedule and do our best to get along with the other animals.

The analogy is beginning to creak. The birds that God made kill each other, not because they - like humans - are sinful, but because they were designed that way. The garden we are in is tended by us; when disaster strikes, the gardener does not appear. When the grass needs water, the gardener ignores the drought. But most of all, when some of the weakest creatures appeal to the gardener for help, the gardener seems not to hear or to ignore.

It is so easy to believe the gardener has gone.

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Post #9

Post by bluethread »

marco wrote:
bluethread wrote: We may have been similar to pets in the garden. However, we have gone farel. However, some of us hang around the ranch, pay attention to the feeding schedule and do our best to get along with the other animals.

The analogy is beginning to creak. The birds that God made kill each other, not because they - like humans - are sinful, but because they were designed that way. The garden we are in is tended by us; when disaster strikes, the gardener does not appear. When the grass needs water, the gardener ignores the drought. But most of all, when some of the weakest creatures appeal to the gardener for help, the gardener seems not to hear or to ignore.

It is so easy to believe the gardener has gone.
Well, you appear to be jumping the human here. The analogy is, Adonai is to humans, as humans are to animals. Whether by original design, or as an adjustment to accommodate man's present nature, ravens kill other kinds of birds and humans kill other kind of mammals. Sin is not inherent in an action. Sin is a moral designation placed upon an action. People kill other mammals for the same reasons that ravens kill other birds. Also, humans kill humans for the same reasons ravens kill ravens. Human designate some of those killings as animal cruelty and murder based on moral grounds. In the case of constitutional theists, those are designated by dicttes from a deity. Other social animals also have more primative moral codes. Domesticated animals, whether domesticated in part or in whole, aquire some of those codes from humans.

So, one can group both social animals and humans into three categories when it comes to externally derived moral codes. Those are wild, farel and domesticated. The wild establish either personal and/or pack morals and do not recognize external moral codes. The farel, in addition to the personal and/or pack morals, acknowledge some external moral codes. The domesticated, accept broad external moral codes, along with personal and/or pack morals. The primary difference is in degree. For domesticated animals, extrenal moral codes can be seen as pack codes, with humans being recognized as part of the pack. However, domestic pack codes are so divergent from wild pack codes, the wild animal can never truly be trusted by humans and the domesticated animal does not live more than two to eight years as a feral.

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Re: Are We God's Pets?

Post #10

Post by 2ndRateMind »

marco wrote: The idea it's all a great test and we'll get the results on Judgment Day is exciting, unless you are a small infant, drinking dirty water, doomed to die like a mayfly. Or someone who has been born with no power to look after their own welfare; or someone who has lived an exemplary life only to be humiliated by some debilitating senile infirmity in the winter of their existence.
That is my very point about this great cosmic battle between good and evil. If we don't like the way the world is, we have the task to sort it out into something more congenial to our moralities. That will take, at the very least, the wide development of Aristotle's four great virtues: temperance, courage, wisdom and justice. Doubtless, if we do indeed take up the fight against the evils that beset the world, there are enough of them to keep us all occupied for the remainder of our lives. And doubtless, our characters will benefit from the development of these necessary virtues. And doubtless further, come the end of days, God will recognise those who have done good work, and developed their spiritual potential, and helped to reduce the overall sum of suffering.

So then, is this moral conflict we are thrust into, without choice or consultation or even an uncontroversial map of righteousness to guide us, anything really that different in nature to the kind of games we give to our pets to amuse them?

Best wishes, 2RM.

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