Are We God's Pets?

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2ndRateMind
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Are We God's Pets?

Post #1

Post by 2ndRateMind »

So, I don't have any pets, right now. It would complicate my simple life beyond my capacity to cope. But as a child, we had a dog (Miranda) and a cat (Rufus). And I loved them both. We fed them, and bought them treats, and toys to keep them occupied and exercised.

I can't help wondering though, if God's relationship to us is not all that different to our relationship to pets. We love them, as He loves us; not as equals, but as subordinates to be pandered to and cared for and indulged, to keep them occupied and 'happy'.

If this is right, the cosmic battle between Good and Evil has no significance beyond a situation set up to engage us, like a pet toy, and provide us opportunity to develop virtue and forego vice. It is an amusing passtime, for those who accept the mission against evil, but maybe does not really matter in the long run of things, at all.

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Re: Are We God's Pets?

Post #41

Post by 2ndRateMind »

marco wrote:
2ndRateMind wrote:
I can only relate my own experience as to how I entered the circle, and it was by loving absolutes first; the true, the noble, the good, the just, the kind, the decent, the beauteous, etc, and then by realising that all these absolutes were neither more nor less than the attributes of God. Pursue any of these absolutes relentlessly and wholeheartedly, or all of them together, and you will, I am sure, discover your God.
Tell me, though, what is the difference between endowing your invisible God with these virtues and some native ascribing healing powers to a wooden totem?
One is faith, the other superstition. What is the difference between faith and superstition? The answer, which all true believers claim to experience, is that faith is rewarded by subjective confirmations, and superstition is not. As a bishop I overheard on the radio once said: 'When I start to lose faith, coincidences stop happening.'

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Re: Are We God's Pets?

Post #42

Post by marco »

ttruscott wrote:

Does your dog feel and trust your love all the time, even when he is in the dog house for being bad, or is he not sad and and seeking? Do they not feel abandoned when left alone until they're older and learn to trust? Does our feelings of abandonment prove HE doesn't exist or doesn't love us?
Unfortunately feelings of abandonment, for many pets, are pretty well justified. Feeling is relieved in thsoe cases where the master returns from a shopping trip. But he if stays away for a lifetime, I think doggy is entitled to conclude he's been deserted or master is not there.
Incidentally it's my observation that dogs display a stronger, more loyal love than many humans. I don't have a dog.


ttruscott wrote:
Stone? What father lets his child out of time out when he demands it? What father lets the child out for crocodile tears of false remorse, 'Let me out so I can do it again!"? What father treats the psychopathic enemies of his family like he does his children?
You're arguing a different point. The statement is not about a son requiring licence for excesses; it is a son asking for bread. A good father of course gives his son nourishment. You are arguing that everything we ask, however hungry or needy we are, is ruinous or frivolous and merits refusal. That was not Christ's message when he advised: Ask and ye shall receive - the understanding being of course that it was bread we were asking for not a gun.

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Re: Are We God's Pets?

Post #43

Post by ttruscott »

marco wrote:You're arguing a different point. ... Ask and ye shall receive - the understanding being of course that it was bread we were asking for not a gun.
Your original assertion referred to humans as a cohesive group,
marco wrote: All in all actuality is better than pretence. We are humans and we need human love, not a promise of some appreciation when we as cosmic voyagers we become spiritual entities.

What father gives his son a stone when he asks for bread?
which led to a false conclusion. Humans are NOT seen to be a cohesive group, but divided into sons and not sons: Hebrews 12:8 If you are not disciplined--and everyone undergoes discipline--then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.

My answer reminds that Christianity doesn't accept humans as all the same but as separated into two camps over their relationship with YHWH. Those who accept HIM as GOD, HIS elect, are treated differently from those who reject HIM, the non-elect. Those who get the bread of life are HIS legitimate sons. Those who do not get the bread of life but only table bread, the non-elect people of the evil one, are as blessed by the rain and sun as much as the elect, the people of the kingdom, Matthew 5:45.

Only judgement or punishment brings 'stones' to anyone. The reference to SONS does not refer to every person but only true sons: not those not HIS children Deuteronomy 32:5 They have acted corruptly toward Him, They are not His children, because of their defect; But are a perverse and crooked generation. OR: their defect is that they are not HIS children...

Asking for bread is a euphemism for being forgiven and for those who are condemned already, there remains only the stone of judgement which true sons never get as per the parable of the good but sinful seed.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Are We God's Pets?

Post #44

Post by marco »

ttruscott wrote:
Asking for bread is a euphemism for being forgiven and for those who are condemned already, there remains only the stone of judgement which true sons never get as per the parable of the good but sinful seed.
I should have known that we were deep in figurative language. However, I'm happy to hear that some of humanity are given bread when they ask for it. It's better than I got at the supermarket yesterday - all bread sold out due to weather conditions, and doubtless due to God's irritation over some trifle.

It is so easy to attribute things to God and so hard to justify the theory.

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Post #45

Post by 2ndRateMind »

So, in the absence of any decisive criticism, what should be our attitude to this war of Good vs Evil? Should we ignore it, as beneath our dignity to partake? Or should we be grateful to a God who has not only given us our lives, and unconditionally, but also something meaningful to do with them?

Best wishes, 2RM.

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Post #46

Post by Overcomer »

This is a good discussion going on here.

I wonder if any of you have ever thought about how different worldviews, religious or otherwise, explain the existence of evil.

Even more importantly, have you thought about how different worldviews, religious or otherwise, attempt to deal with evil -- and how successful have they been?

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Re: Are We God's Pets?

Post #47

Post by ThePainefulTruth »

2ndRateMind wrote: So, I don't have any pets, right now. It would complicate my simple life beyond my capacity to cope. But as a child, we had a dog (Miranda) and a cat (Rufus). And I loved them both. We fed them, and bought them treats, and toys to keep them occupied and exercised.

I can't help wondering though, if God's relationship to us is not all that different to our relationship to pets. We love them, as He loves us; not as equals, but as subordinates to be pandered to and cared for and indulged, to keep them occupied and 'happy'.

If this is right, the cosmic battle between Good and Evil has no significance beyond a situation set up to engage us, like a pet toy, and provide us opportunity to develop virtue and forego vice. It is an amusing passtime, for those who accept the mission against evil, but maybe does not really matter in the long run of things, at all.

Best wishes, 2RM.
First, we, unlike our pets, have full self-awareness and moral free will. We're placed here with no idea why we're here to see how we handle that free will. It's a moral test. I suppose the pet analogy holds up when considering that we have the ability to surprise, delight and disappoint our "owner", something that requires free will, which is where the analogy breaks down. Pets are innocent, we aren't.

But until we know that God exists, and that there's a hereafter, as a minimum, any speculation about what that hereafter is like is impossible. People claiming that they'd be bored are being cavalier in the extreme. We've only just
begun to explore this natural universe.

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Post #48

Post by ttruscott »

... if God's relationship to us is not all that different to our relationship to pets.
Would you marry your pet?


The Marriage Supper of the Lamb

Revelation 19:6 Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out,

“Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God
the Almighty reigns.
7 Let us rejoice and exult
and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;
8 it was granted her to clothe herself
with fine linen, bright and pure�

for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Post #49

Post by Tcg »

ttruscott wrote:
Would you marry your pet?
I wouldn't, no.

The Marriage Supper of the Lamb
I wouldn't marry a farm animal either.

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Post #50

Post by TSGracchus »

Well, if we are pets or children, we are abused and neglected. If we are merely sheep or cattle for slaughter we are ill-tended. Perhaps we are only for sport, a cruel show for the entertainment of a sadistic deity, or merely inconsequential vermin, to be trodden carelessly underfoot.

Or maybe, just maybe, we should forget all that religious nonsense and just take our fate into our own hands.

:study:

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