Can we say anything about the beginning?

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Waterfall
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Can we say anything about the beginning?

Post #1

Post by Waterfall »

According to the bible:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
How can this be the beginning?

What I am looking for is something like this:

In the beginning God was slepping and then (for some reason) God woke up and created a spirituel world.

This seems more like a beginning to me.

Maybe it is not so difficult to understand that before we can talk about creation something had to be in order. Like a man and a woman. We can have a man and a woman but if they do not unite there can be no talk about creating a baby. Maybe something like this was going on in the beginning. Something had to unite before it was able to create.

Can we come up with a better story than the one in the bible?

If I was God I would create a giant planet (it is a little difficult to make an infinite planet...) and settle down there forever.

What would you do?

There are those (the Hare Krishna movement) who think Krishna always has lived on a planet in the spirituel world, but if this is true then Krishna is not the creator of that world.

Is that not a problem? How big should this planet be? No thinking about anything? Things are just perfect?

To understand this way of thinking we could imagine a planet that always has been spinning around. This is not difficult. But to say how many times it has rotated is difficult = impossible. The only way to solve this problem is to create the planet and then count the number of rotation. Otherwice there can be no answer to the question other than an infinite number.

Maybe there is no beginning?

But if you have an infinite past would you then could do something that you not already have done? I will create a universe...well...that is fine...but have you not already done that? With an infinite past everything seems to have been done? Is there not a problem here? You can´t create anything because you have already created it? Or?

It would be much easyer if God popped out of nothing...but from nothing comes nothing...so...where should we put God? Why not put God in a slepping state and then wake God up? This would solve some problems...what have you done? Nothing! How is that? Well...I was slepping! How long time was you slepping? I was slepping until I woke up! If there was some kind of cycle we could answer the question...like...I fell aslep at 24.00 and woke up at 12.00 and fell aslep at 24.00...then we could say 12 hours...but without that cycle how answer the question?

Maybe you have a better beginning?

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Re: Can we say anything about the beginning?

Post #21

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Waterfall wrote: [Replying to post 11 by JehovahsWitness]

To me it seems like there must have been a time when God just existed.

But you think that God always have been doing something?

How is that possible?

Existing is "doing someting"; I dont pretend to fully comprehend the nature of an infintite being but it seems to me an intelligent conscious being cannot exist without thought and feelings, what actions those thoughts and feelings took who knows?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Can we say anything about the beginning?

Post #22

Post by Waterfall »

[Replying to post 21 by JehovahsWitness]

I did not understand what you were saying. Therefore my questions - again and again. So we think the same way. God existed. But was not doing anything. Exept from existing. Are we on the same page here? It seems so to me, so I will move on...

Was there light (good) and darkness (evil) at this point? God has not created everything. God being one of those things. But what about light and darkness?

In this book:

http://uk.vandrermodlyset.dk/

It is said that thought, will, light and darkness always have been there and that thought and will moved into the light and that there was a struggle. But thought and will never gave up and at the end when they united in the light a flaming person appeard. These are just my words. It sounds better in the book:

http://uk.vandrermodlyset.dk/m-a01.htm

http://uk.vandrermodlyset.dk/m-ko01.htm

Maybe you have a better story?

You seem to start with a God who have not been through anything. This is a very lucky God :-) The rest of us have to go through all kinds of problems. Why not just create us all like Jesus? Then we could stay in heaven and enjoy some good red wine and think about how lucky we all are...maybe there is no red wine...but there must be some good fruits there...something to enjoy.

I am not sure if you find it silly that God is living on a planet in the spirituel world, so...?

I like the Hare Krishna movement and would love to talk with them about things. It could be very interesting to hear what they have to say. I do not think we reincarnate in other bodies than the human body and I would not like to have another body in the spirituel world. I would though erase the genitals. I see no point in having them. But I would like a female partner. Then we could enjoy heaven together. Be two and yet one. Its a good idea. Thought and will. Together they are very powerfull.

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Re: Can we say anything about the beginning?

Post #23

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Waterfall wrote: [Replying to post 21 by JehovahsWitness]

I did not understand what you were saying. Therefore my questions - again and again. So we think the same way. God existed. But was not doing anything.

No we are not on the same page and I do not agree with you. I don't know what he was doing but I know He was not inactive because the bible says God is never inactive.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Can we say anything about the beginning?

Post #24

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Waterfall wrote:

Was there light (good) and darkness (evil) at this point? God has not created everything.
Do not agree, I do not believe darkness is evil. Darkness is just the lack of peceivable light, it is neither good or bad just a physical fact.



God created the universe and all living things that have a beginning.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Can we say anything about the beginning?

Post #25

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Waterfall wrote:
I am not sure if you find it silly that God is living on a planet in the spirituel world, so...?

Yes I do find that silly, a planet is a body that orbits a star, God isnt in a location going around a star. If anything every thing goes around Him!
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Can we say anything about the beginning?

Post #26

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Waterfall wrote: But I would like a female partner. Then we could enjoy heaven together. Be two and yet one. Its a good idea. Thought and will. Together they are very powerfull.

Then the bible should appeal to you, God made humans to form partnerships and live happily on earth. The Jehovah Witnesses is the best religion for people that want to enjoy paradise as males or females.

You will have to live on earth not in heaven, heaven is for God and the angels not you and I who are humans.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Can we say anything about the beginning?

Post #27

Post by mgb »

2ndRateMind wrote:
So, because there can be a God, there is a God? Nice idea.
I see it like that too; in nothingness there would be nothing to prevent God from existing so if He can exist He would exist. Maybe that is what being is; what can be, is.

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Re: Can we say anything about the beginning?

Post #28

Post by Waterfall »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Waterfall wrote: [Replying to post 21 by JehovahsWitness]

I did not understand what you were saying. Therefore my questions - again and again. So we think the same way. God existed. But was not doing anything.

No we are not on the same page and I do not agree with you. I don't know what he was doing but I know He was not inactive because the bible says God is never inactive.
Okay :)

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Re: Can we say anything about the beginning?

Post #29

Post by Waterfall »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Waterfall wrote:

Was there light (good) and darkness (evil) at this point? God has not created everything.
Do not agree, I do not believe darkness is evil. Darkness is just the lack of peceivable light, it is neither good or bad just a physical fact.



God created the universe and all living things that have a beginning.
I do not think the color black is evil...

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Re: Can we say anything about the beginning?

Post #30

Post by Waterfall »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Waterfall wrote:
I am not sure if you find it silly that God is living on a planet in the spirituel world, so...?

Yes I do find that silly, a planet is a body that orbits a star, God isnt in a location going around a star. If anything every thing goes around Him!
God is the center of things...but the earth is still going around the sun...

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