Life is An Illusion.

[twobitsmedia]

Life is an illusion. I am not really here. You are not really here. We do not know anything because there is really not anything to know. If this is true, than do I have an argument? I need to get a life........but......I can't because there is no life to get. If we do not exist, then we are completely out of touch with all truth and reality--because there is not any to be in touch with. My question than, is, if I do not exist than what does it matter what the question is?

[bernee51]

Life is an illusion. I am not really here. You are not really here. We do not know anything because there is really not anything to know. If this is true, than do I have an argument? I need to get a life........but......I can't because there is no life to get. If we do not exist, then we are completely out of touch with all truth and reality--because there is not any to be in touch with. My question than, is, if I do not exist than what does it matter what the question is?

It depends on what you mean by life.

Starting at the basics...we are made up of atoms and molecules, which quantum complications notwithstanding, solid matter. This 'physiosphere' of atoms and moleules is included in and transcended by the next 'level', the 'biosphere' - all our biochemical functions. So far nit to illusionary in a gross sense. Howeverf, these in turn are included in and transcended by the next 'level' - that of the mind. The noosphere. The mind includes what we call consciousness.

All our perceptions of the world, all we believe is happening to and around us is filtered through the mind and to a large extent is a function of the mind. It all exists in the mind. To that extent they are illusionary. That is not to say that what goes on in the mind can not affect the other 'lower' levels, and visa versa. We can look at a stick on a dark night, mistake it for a snake and our gross body reacts accordingly. The snake, however, was 'all in the mind'.

The biggest illusion of all, and that which is the root cause of suffering, is the mistaken belief that an individual self exists.

[twobitsmedia]

Life is an illusion. I am not really here. You are not really here. We do not know anything because there is really not anything to know. If this is true, than do I have an argument? I need to get a life........but......I can't because there is no life to get. If we do not exist, then we are completely out of touch with all truth and reality--because there is not any to be in touch with. My question than, is, if I do not exist than what does it matter what the question is?

It depends on what you mean by life.

Starting at the basics...we are made up of atoms and molecules, which quantum complications notwithstanding, solid matter. This 'physiosphere' of atoms and moleules is included in and transcended by the next 'level', the 'biosphere' - all our biochemical functions. So far nit to illusionary in a gross sense. Howeverf, these in turn are included in and transcended by the next 'level' - that of the mind. The noosphere. The mind includes what we call consciousness.

All our perceptions of the world, all we believe is happening to and around us is filtered through the mind and to a large extent is a function of the mind. It all exists in the mind. To that extent they are illusionary. That is not to say that what goes on in the mind can not affect the other 'lower' levels, and visa versa. We can look at a stick on a dark night, mistake it for a snake and our gross body reacts accordingly. The snake, however, was 'all in the mind'.

The biggest illusion of all, and that which is the root cause of suffering, is the mistaken belief that an individual self exists.

So, when someone has back pain, the proper response is "I don't really have pain because I don't really exist anyway." If that idea catches on than the only real "disaster mangement" that needs to be assimilated after a natural disaster is to have someone go and explain that what happened may have happened, but since you don't exist, you are exempt....and they will add "we are still investigating as to whether or not the disaster actually happened..."

[Zarathustra]

So, when someone has back pain, the proper response is "I don't really have pain because I don't really exist anyway." If that idea catches on than the only real "disaster mangement" that needs to be assimilated after a natural disaster is to have someone go and explain that what happened may have happened, but since you don't exist, you are exempt....and they will add "we are still investigating as to whether or not the disaster actually happened..."

I think this misses the point entirely. Sure, we may not actually exist, but the point is that we perceive that we exist. We perceive these events around us, and whether or not they are actually happening, for all intents and purposes they are.

Whether life is some sort of physical reality, some mass delusion of metaphysical beings, or an elaborate story constructed by the bored mind of the infinite consciousness of some supreme being is irrelevant; as long as we are here, this is as real as it gets.

Despite what is set forth in Richard Bach's Illusions, it takes a gargantuan effort to change your own perceptions enough that it actually alters physical reality. Trust me, telling victims of a natural disaster that it may not have actually happened isn't going to lessen their suffering. And the person running that "exhaustive" investigation is going to catch some serious flack.

This is life. You're going to be here for a while. Enjoy the ride.

[twobitsmedia]

So, when someone has back pain, the proper response is "I don't really have pain because I don't really exist anyway." If that idea catches on than the only real "disaster mangement" that needs to be assimilated after a natural disaster is to have someone go and explain that what happened may have happened, but since you don't exist, you are exempt....and they will add "we are still investigating as to whether or not the disaster actually happened..."

I think this misses the point entirely. Sure, we may not actually exist, but the point is that we perceive that we exist.

So, if some day we wake up and percieve that we don't exist, we disappear?

We perceive these events around us, and whether or not they are actually happening, for all intents and purposes they are.

That would mean that the person in the mental institution who is seeing "images' is sane because "whether or not they are actually" happening, to him they are, so they are.

[Cathar1950]

I had a hard time answering the question.
Life is a real illusion or an illusion that is real.

[Metatron]

Reality is.

We simply have finite means to perceive that reality.

[Zarathustra]

So, if some day we wake up and percieve that we don't exist, we disappear?

That would mean that the person in the mental institution who is seeing "images' is sane because "whether or not they are actually" happening, to him they are, so they are.

No, that's not exactly what I mean; perhaps I didn't articulate it well enough last time.

There is a generally agreed upon reality that is as close to "reality" (or, perhaps, Reality) as humans can hope to get. We're given a limited data set to understand reality, and do our best with what we have. As I said, since we all have similar capabilities to perceive, we all perceive similar things: called reality. Sure, it may be different from Reality, but it's as close as we can get.

The two examples you gave are of people that have some sort of fouled-up perceptions. The insane person, obviously, is taking in corrupt stimuli and therefore unable to trust his own perceptions.

As far as perceiving that we don't exist? That seems rather contradictory, no?

I hope I did better articulating this time, I'm kind of out of practice...

[ST88]

Life is an illusion. I am not really here. You are not really here. We do not know anything because there is really not anything to know. If this is true, than do I have an argument? I need to get a life........but......I can't because there is no life to get. If we do not exist, then we are completely out of touch with all truth and reality--because there is not any to be in touch with. My question than, is, if I do not exist than what does it matter what the question is?

Every single word we use to describe our existence is a metaphor for any actual existence that we might or might not perceive. Every word we use must be filtered through our experience with that word: the Platonic or Ur concept of the word, the exactness with which this concept coincides with the perceived referent, our experience with similar referents, and the referent's ability to imply its own existence as or correspondence with that referent. So existence may not be what we think we're referring to when we say it, but it's something we're aware of. And just be being aware of whatever it is, we can say we are individuals (whatever that may refer to).

[bernee51]

So, when someone has back pain, the proper response is "I don't really have pain because I don't really exist anyway."

No not exactly. As I wrote above, we exist in a physical sense. Our atoms and molecules interact with other atoms and molecules. Our biochemical functions interact with atoms and molecules and other aspects of the biochemical. Back pain is often caused by a physical lesion of some sort. The atoms and molecules being in a place or under a pressure that hey were not designed to be under causes what we interpret as pain. What that pain means, though, and even its intensity, is purely mental. The mere fact that the pain response can be controlled by mental processes is proof of this. I have personal experience of doing just that.

If that idea catches on than the only real "disaster mangement" that needs to be assimilated after a natural disaster is to have someone go and explain that what happened may have happened, but since you don't exist, you are exempt....and they will add "we are still investigating as to whether or not the disaster actually happened..."

The physical issues that we interpret as ‘disaster’ may have actually happened. Katrina certainly did wash away a large part of New Orleans. Katrina probably didn’t notice. What that disaster actually means is another issue is it not? To someone whose business was inundated it meant loss of their livelihood. It may have resulted in them getting very depressed to the point of suicide. It may have even lead to their death. To a contractor rebuilding the shattered city it may be a goldmine.