Muslims see sin as a challenge, except for sex?

[Greatest I Am]

Muslims see sin as a challenge, except for sex?

In speaking with Muslims, I have found that they see sin as something to be conquered and they are not shy about taking on the challenge of fighting their desires for sin.
A good trait to my mind.

Except for sexual matters.

With these sins and temptations, Muslims hide their temptation away, with clothing and social separation, and never face and conquer this particular group of sins. An example of this would be weddings where the females are separated from the males.

Know that some are more liberal than others and there is some liberalization but think that this is not the common Muslim.

Why is there a double standard?

Face and conquer, so to speak, other sins, but hide from sexual ones.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL

[TrueReligion]

No, you are taking one example of Iran, dats y I asked you did you ever read this punishment in Quran, or any of Hadith, or Islamic tradition? I can show you numerous other examples of non-muslim countries, where un-human things are hapening and its from culture involving religion in wrong aspect.
Show me any verse of Quran which tells this wat they did in Iran.

I use the example of Iran simply because nowhere else in the world has come out with guidelines for rape. This declaration was made by an imam, he has spent decades studying islam and as such I doubt a simple web search is going to trump his knowledge. If you disagree with his pronouncement say so, but saying it's not just us over and over again isn't a defence. Make your choice agree with your islamic brother and declare rape is okay or disagree with him and take a stand against rape.

I ask you if you have any evidence from Quran or any Islamic law regarding this issue of Iran? Only showing this incident is showing your lack of knowledge of Islam, there are many cases hapening in non-muslim countries as well, where people are relating it to religion, but infact its not a part of the religion in real.

Find below the details. Man marrying Dog in India.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311079,00.html

Girl weds frog in India.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... frogs.html

Now, I never saw any of your post for this thing? is it onlyIslam which you are against> does;nt it show your BIAS nature towards muslims?

you are tying to protect women? my friend,are the pornographic channels in the world, nudity of women, sex, rape, is this more in islamic country or in non-muslim countries? you are urself degrading women, our women are very happy with their dress, you dont have to bother for them

Who knows, most islamic countries either don't report crime data or they don't even bother keeping records of crimes. You are equating nudity with rape and this simply isn't true, in europe nudity is much more accepted than in america and yet they have much lower rape rates. Please stop making the same old generalizations that I have repeatedly called you on, it's getting tiresome.

This is just a childish reason, if you have proof bring it on, everything is open in Islamic country, you can go to internet and find out,
Regarding west, every country is included, not only US. even europe is included in this, and if you think its not much in europe, its ur mistake, most pornograpic channels are working from europe.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200911050808.html
http://www.out-law.com/page-4660

Most rape cases in world.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_r ... per-capita

I told already, in Islam, Hijab is odered for man 1st, thn for woman, read Islam thn tell me if its rigiht pr wrong

So because you make no expectations for men to control themselves you punish women by making them all wear basically the same thing, heaven forbid that a man be taught self control. If you can't control yourselves how do you expect to control anything.

I think you have a total lack of knowledge of Islam, and you just rely in media and news which are trying to molest Islam, if you are true in your words, y I never head anythingfrom what is hapening in Indna and by hindus, which in real target andmolst women, and torture and beat them.
and in west, where there is cruelty and nudity which they gave to women, and no respect at all forwoman in west at all.

It probably has to do with the fact that this thread is about islam, if you want to make a thread about how hindus mistreat women go ahead. I find it interesting you have completely ignored the men should be expected to control themselves aspect. I also like how you state I have no knowledge of islam while at the same time you blatantly show your lack of knowledge of the west.[/quote]

This is what im telling, that get the details ofIslam, and find the verse of Quran which discuss for hijab, then telme its men or women 1st told for hijab.

[Greatest I Am]

Sin.

My definition of sin is anything that causes legitimate harm to individuals or causes justifiable complaints by others.
Sin is what, if done to an individual, causes that individual to want retribution.

Regards
DL

Ok, so the person who harms individual or others, should he be given punishment or not?

Absolutely.

Not the religious punishment because that punishment is not exactly graduated to fit the sin.
To spend eternity in hell for any sin is just overkill and unjust.

Some say that we sin against God as well when we sin and that is why that punishment is so huge but I believe that to be B S.
We sin against other humans. God is irrelevant.

Regards
DL

Ok, now lets suppose as the post suggest, its for sin of sex that muslims avoid temptation etc, so what you think are the possible ways of sins in sex,?

e.g rape adultery,fornication, etc etc, does these things harm individual and society?

Rape is not primarily a sex crime. It is a control crime with a sexual component and yes it would be a sin or crime because it is not consenting adults.
There is a victim.

Adultery, fornication etc., if done openly and freely by the participants then there is no victim. In this case it would not be a sin or crime.

If they include lying to a partner then yes as it could produce a victim or someone hurt by it. It would be considered a sin but not a crime.

Is being Gay a sin or crime. Not if it is consenting adults.

Regards
DL

Ok, so we agree that rape is sin as well as crime and the person need to be punished.

We do.

So Islam provides the way, that this incident of rape should not happen, and becomes very less. Now tell me, if 2 girls, one covered with clothes, and other with revealing clothes showing her body and etcetc, who will get chance of being raped more?

No one has yet found a cure for rape. Ifit is primarily a crime of control, then to teach your men to control women instead of controling themselve is counter productive.

If Muslims are soft and weak when it comes to sex then to not temper and harden them with flame/temptation, they will never purify their control and sexual dispositions.

For adultery, its sex done by married male or female, with some1 else thn their legal partner, and ofcourse 95% is hidden and without the knowledge of their legal partner, so what you think, hiding and stealing is a good example in society? we are here right to build the best of society for every1.
And the morals which kids get, if the husband or wife is caught,thn the argument and fight errupts, divorce, court etc etc,
All these things Islam ordered not to get involve, and thats y muslims avoid any kind of temptation, leading to sex, which in turn bring bad results on whole family,and on society.

Hope my explanation is clear and easy to understand.

Thanks

As I stated above, what consenting adults do is their own business as long as there is no victim created.

Your example is one of deceit and a victim is created and we agree that it would be wrong to deceive.

If there is no deceit then there is no sin or crime or victim.

I notice that you ignored the Gay question. Selective comfort zone for a poor morality is my guess.

Regards
DL

[micatala]

Moderator Intervention

so in ur mind feminity for women is only that her chestis open, and half legs showingetc etc?its not feminity, its called vulgarity, and its not even accepted in many non=muslim countries as well.

Where the hell do you get this out of what I have written

Rest for beard and something, in past years, keeping beard is a sign of man, removing it was considered as a sign of being lady like nature,u know what I mean.

Hey I'm just trying to protect the women, from the apparently unstoppable hordes of horny islamic men.

I told already, in Islam, Hijab is odered for man 1st, thn for woman, read Islam thn tell me if its rigiht pr wrong

So because you make no expectations for men to control themselves you punish women by making them all wear basically the same thing, heaven forbid that a man be taught self control. If you can't control yourselves how do you expect to control anything.

Just a friendly reminder on civility. These comments are getting a little sarcastic and perhaps inflammatory.

[TrueReligion]

Sin.


Ok, so we agree that rape is sin as well as crime and the person need to be punished.

We do.

So Islam provides the way, that this incident of rape should not happen, and becomes very less. Now tell me, if 2 girls, one covered with clothes, and other with revealing clothes showing her body and etcetc, who will get chance of being raped more?

No one has yet found a cure for rape. Ifit is primarily a crime of control, then to teach your men to control women instead of controling themselve is counter productive.

If Muslims are soft and weak when it comes to sex then to not temper and harden them with flame/temptation, they will never purify their control and sexual dispositions.

what makes you think thatmuslim guys are weak and easily tempted dats y they control their women? have;nt u seen muslims in western countries? are they tearing of the clothes of nonmuslim western gals?are majority of muslims in nude bars and in pornography studios etc etc>
Still if muslims are in nonmuslim society, yet they have power to control their temptation towards sex.
and cure for rape is given by Islam, dont u see the stats of rape in muslim countries and in non-muslim countries?

For adultery, its sex done by married male or female, with some1 else thn their legal partner, and ofcourse 95% is hidden and without the knowledge of their legal partner, so what you think, hiding and stealing is a good example in society? we are here right to build the best of society for every1.
And the morals which kids get, if the husband or wife is caught,thn the argument and fight errupts, divorce, court etc etc,
All these things Islam ordered not to get involve, and thats y muslims avoid any kind of temptation, leading to sex, which in turn bring bad results on whole family,and on society.

Hope my explanation is clear and easy to understand.

Thanks

As I stated above, what consenting adults do is their own business as long as there is no victim created.

Your example is one of deceit and a victim is created and we agree that it would be wrong to deceive.

If there is no deceit then there is no sin or crime or victim.

So how many husbands or wives u think wil allow hapily to let their legal inmates do love with their happiness> Ive never heard any thing like this, maybe in west it is, but not in Asian and other countries.and even if its in west, its a very bad moral and un-civilized society, even animal are better thn this society.

I notice that you ignored the Gay question. Selective comfort zone for a poor morality is my guess.

Regards
DL

For your gay part, I dont feel like replying, as its not relevant to post,and also its not accepted by majority of non-muslims as well, they call it just a mental sickness nothing else.

[Greatest I Am]

[

For your gay part, I dont feel like replying, as its not relevant to post,and also its not accepted by majority of non-muslims as well, they call it just a mental sickness nothing else.

This says otherwise.



That aside,

Is it normal practice then for Islam to discriminate and denigrate and sometimes even murder their mentally ill?

Regards
DL

[TrueReligion]

[

For your gay part, I dont feel like replying, as its not relevant to post,and also its not accepted by majority of non-muslims as well, they call it just a mental sickness nothing else.

This says otherwise.



That aside,

Is it normal practice then for Islam to discriminate and denigrate and sometimes even murder their mentally ill?

Regards
DL

Did u found anything related to gay or punishment in Quran or Islamic law?

[Greatest I Am]

[

For your gay part, I dont feel like replying, as its not relevant to post,and also its not accepted by majority of non-muslims as well, they call it just a mental sickness nothing else.

This says otherwise.



That aside,

Is it normal practice then for Islam to discriminate and denigrate and sometimes even murder their mentally ill?

Regards
DL

Did u found anything related to gay or punishment in Quran or Islamic law?

Sure bit I did not get a clear answer so I gave one link only and then returned with the question above.
Like many Vhristian questions, Is lam is not as clear as it could be.

Will you answer it or ignore it?

We both know that Islam has murdered Gays.

Is it normal practice then for Islam to discriminate and denigrate and sometimes even murder their mentally ill?

Regards
DL

[Wyvern]

I ask you if you have any evidence from Quran or any Islamic law regarding this issue of Iran? Only showing this incident is showing your lack of knowledge of Islam, there are many cases hapening in non-muslim countries as well, where people are relating it to religion, but infact its not a part of the religion in real.

Fine show me any other country that has authorized and published guidelines for rape. Show me any other country where a religious authority has given guidelines on how to conduct a proper rape.

Find below the details. Man marrying Dog in India.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311079,00.html

Girl weds frog in India.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... frogs.html

Now, I never saw any of your post for this thing? is it onlyIslam which you are against> does;nt it show your BIAS nature towards muslims?

Does any of this involve officially sanctioned both by secular and religious authorities authorizing and giving guidelines for rape?

This is just a childish reason, if you have proof bring it on, everything is open in Islamic country, you can go to internet and find out,
Regarding west, every country is included, not only US. even europe is included in this, and if you think its not much in europe, its ur mistake, most pornograpic channels are working from europe.

Yes everything is open in islamic countries except you didn't notice most arabic countries aren't even listed in your crime stats you gave. Where is the listing for Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, the Palestine authority, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Jordan, Libya, Sudan, Morocco, Oman, Kuwait and the U.A.E.? It would seem that reporting crime stats is the exception not the rule in islamic countries.

This is what im telling, that get the details ofIslam, and find the verse of Quran which discuss for hijab, then telme its men or women 1st told for hijab.

I don't have to since you have already told me that it is firstly for the men, since islam makes no expectation for men to control themselves so they instead control women.

[TrueReligion]

[

For your gay part, I dont feel like replying, as its not relevant to post,and also its not accepted by majority of non-muslims as well, they call it just a mental sickness nothing else.

This says otherwise.



That aside,

Is it normal practice then for Islam to discriminate and denigrate and sometimes even murder their mentally ill?

Regards
DL

Did u found anything related to gay or punishment in Quran or Islamic law?

Sure bit I did not get a clear answer so I gave one link only and then returned with the question above.
Like many Vhristian questions, Is lam is not as clear as it could be.

Will you answer it or ignore it?

We both know that Islam has murdered Gays.

Is it normal practice then for Islam to discriminate and denigrate and sometimes even murder their mentally ill?

Regards
DL

Any historic proof in the time of Muhammad (pbuh) gave death penalty to Gay? or in Quran its mentioned in clear words?
Please dont bring your assumptions, and any incident happening, every country have different ruling as per their law, we have to see the authentic sources and judge.

[Greatest I Am]

[

Any historic proof in the time of Muhammad (pbuh) gave death penalty to Gay? or in Quran its mentioned in clear words?
Please dont bring your assumptions, and any incident happening, every country have different ruling as per their law, we have to see the authentic sources and judge.

I assume nothing. I listen to the news.

So the answer is yes then.

Regards
DL