Muslim claims of scientific accuracy in the Quran

[OnceConvinced]

In another thread:

Actually look through the Book(it's online I provide the link below lol) before you discredit it. I know the Title may throw you off, and you'll probably click the exit right then and there... but go through it.. check the table of contents and see whats most interesting...

http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf

*~In reality what is in it could not have been known 1,400 years ago. So it proves God exists... and if you don't think so, well it lessens the chances that he doesn't... If you think one is vague go on to the next one, I assure you most of the verses are direct statements that meet up with what is now known.

Does this document prove that the Quran contains knowledge of the world that primitive man couldn't possibly have known? Does it prove that Allah is the one true God? Please justify your response.

[T-mash]

Can I ask why the leech-like clot matters, even if true? Women have had miscarriages back then as well.... seeing a miscarriage, a small-leech like shape covered in blood.... that's not really "knowledge" that wasn't available at that time.

EDIT:

Checked the original link. Seems to be the same old after-claims to me. For example the Qur'an has proof that the earth is round because:

"Seest thou not that Allah merges Night, into Day And He merges Day into Night?
Merging here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day and from day to night.

The Earth is round, and this is the reason that we see day and night as we see it. So this means that if you see that the day gradually gets darker till it is night you know the earth is round? That's complete nonsense. That's the same as saying that because you see lightning in the sky you therefore must have known exactly what lightning is. The verse only says one thing: What they, and everyone else naturally, saw.


Another example:

"The Unbelievers say, Never to
us will come The Hour: say, Nay! But most surely, By my Lord, it will
come Upon you " by Him Who knows the unseen " From Whom is not
hidden The least little atom In the Heavens or on earth: Nor is there
anything less Than that, or greater, but Is in the Record Perspicuous.
[Al-Quraan 34:3]"

Can you maybe tell us a bit about the translation here? I find it highly unlikely that the word atom is used before they were discovered. Seems to me that it is a translation to suit their goals? Something like "little thing" translated to "little atom" seems more likely.

Apart from that most seems common knowledge. A spider's web is weak. You don't say?

"There issues From within their bodies A drink of varying colours,
Wherein is healing for men. [Al-Quraan 16:69]"
We are now aware that honey has a healing property and also a mild
antiseptic property.


I will quote from: http://health.usnews.com/articles/healt ... honey.html

Using honey to treat wounds is hardly a new idea. Anthropologists have found evidence showing ancient Egyptians used the approach as far back as 5,000 years ago. Aristotle wrote of using the sweet stuff as a salve for wounds around 350 B.C.


I'm free to debate any specific point you prefer (won't bother to tackle all of them), but it seems to me the writer made a lot of claims that are incorrect when you compare it to what we DID know back then.

[TrueReligion]

Its not fair thn,you have to provide proof that who was paid, by whom and for what purpose?
2ndly, just by looking at the site name, you can;t decide wats insidde, atleast I have provided the link and source,its upto you to look into it, if you dont like, thn dnt see, in this way it will be proven that Quran is right.

You aren't paying attention again. I have looked at the links you provided and quickly determined they were not from a medical web site which is my one and only condition for an acceptable source.

I think you are the one not paying attention, I explained in detail that the medical webbsites are also writen by meddical experts, and the details provided in my link are also science experts, not ordinary men, so this means if something is not suiting you. u wont acccept it. Its showing not a healthy debate anymore

You have not shown those web sites are 'medical experts'. They appear to be Muslim apologist sites, considering the rest of the content of the sites.

As such, those medical statements can not be verified as being unbiased and accurate. You have a muslim site that claims medical exerts... or self proclaimed medical experts on a Muslim site that is alleged to say things about the Mulism holy book. Do you see the conflict of interest there?

Y those articles and research given there was done by a layman? r;nt those ppl medical researchers?and famous in their field? muslim govt. or universites gave them degrees and made them Head of Dept.?
Your all arguments are showing totaly Bias nature that you dont want to accept any factwhich goes against you,

[TrueReligion]

Its not fair thn,you have to provide proof that who was paid, by whom and for what purpose?
2ndly, just by looking at the site name, you can;t decide wats insidde, atleast I have provided the link and source,its upto you to look into it, if you dont like, thn dnt see, in this way it will be proven that Quran is right.

You aren't paying attention again. I have looked at the links you provided and quickly determined they were not from a medical web site which is my one and only condition for an acceptable source.

I think you are the one not paying attention, I explained in detail that the medical webbsites are also writen by meddical experts, and the details provided in my link are also science experts, not ordinary men, so this means if something is not suiting you. u wont acccept it. Its showing not a healthy debate anymore

Yes some of the people on your desired sites are scientists however this is a medical issue and as such it is appropriate to use the opinions of medical experts to determine whether your claims are correct. If you fall seriously ill do you go to see a geologist? Please stop obfuscating and come up with the desired links from a medical website or retract your claims.

Y should I take back myclaims when its correct? if you have doubt, you should show your claims if im wrong. the ball is in your court now,

[TrueReligion]

Can I ask why the leech-like clot matters, even if true? Women have had miscarriages back then as well.... seeing a miscarriage, a small-leech like shape covered in blood.... that's not really "knowledge" that wasn't available at that time.

EDIT:

Checked the original link. Seems to be the same old after-claims to me. For example the Qur'an has proof that the earth is round because:

"Seest thou not that Allah merges Night, into Day And He merges Day into Night?
Merging here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day and from day to night.

The Earth is round, and this is the reason that we see day and night as we see it. So this means that if you see that the day gradually gets darker till it is night you know the earth is round? That's complete nonsense. That's the same as saying that because you see lightning in the sky you therefore must have known exactly what lightning is. The verse only says one thing: What they, and everyone else naturally, saw.

The shape of earth is never mentioned round in Quran, its mentioned like an egg, or egg of ostrich to be more real. GEO-SPHERICAL.

THE SPHERICAL SHAPE OF THE EARTH
In early times, people believed that the earth is flat. For centuries, men were
afraid to venture out too far, lest they should fall off the edge. Sir Francis
Drake was the first person who proved that the earth is spherical when he
sailed around it in 1597. Consider the following Quraanic verse regarding
the alternation of day and night: Seest thou not that Allah merges Night
into Day And He merges Day into Night? [Al-Quraan 31:29]
Merging here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and
vice versa. This phenomenon can only take place if the earth is spherical. If
the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day
and from day to night.
The following verse also alludes to the spherical shape of the earth: He
created the heavens And the earth In true (proportions): He makes the
Night Overlap the Day, and the Day Overlap the Night. [Al-Quraan
39:5]
The Arabic word used here is Kawwara meaning to overlap or to coil" the
way a turban is wound around the head. The overlapping or coiling of the day
and night can only take place if the earth is spherical.
The earth is not exactly round like a ball, but geo-spherical i.e. it is flattened
at the poles. The following verse contains a description of the earths shape:
And the earth, moreover, Hath He made egg shaped. 2 [Al-Quraan
79:30]
The Arabic word for egg here is dahaha, which means an ostrich-egg. The
shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth. Thus
the Quraan correctly describes the shape of the earth, though the prevalent
notion when the Quraan was revealed was that the earth is flat.
Another example:

"The Unbelievers say, Never to
us will come The Hour: say, Nay! But most surely, By my Lord, it will
come Upon you " by Him Who knows the unseen " From Whom is not
hidden The least little atom In the Heavens or on earth: Nor is there
anything less Than that, or greater, but Is in the Record Perspicuous.
[Al-Quraan 34:3]"

Can you maybe tell us a bit about the translation here? I find it highly unlikely that the word atom is used before they were discovered. Seems to me that it is a translation to suit their goals? Something like "little thing" translated to "little atom" seems more likely.

Let me show the correct and fullcontext which goes from verse 2.

(34:2) He knows what penetrates into the earth and what goes forth from it, what descends from the heaven and what ascends to it. He is the Most Merciful, the Most Forgiving.4
*4 That is, "If a person (or persons) is not being seized in spite of rebellion against Him in His Kingdom, it is not because this world is a lawless kingdom and Allah is ruler, but because Allah is an inept All-Merciful and All-Forbearing, Although it lies in His power to seize the sinner and the wrongdoer immediately on the commission of sin, to withhold his sustenance, to paralyse his body, and to put rum to death suddenly, yet He does not do so. It is the demand of His Beneficence that" in spite of being All-Powerful He gives the disobedient servant plenty of rope and enough respite to mend his ways and as soon as he desists from his evil ways, He pardons and forgives him. "

(34:3) The unbelievers say: How come the Hour is not coming upon us!5 Say to them: Yes indeed, by my Lord, by Him Who fully knows the realm beyond the ken of perception, that the Hour shall inevitably come upon you.6Nothing escapes Him, not even the smallest particle in the heavens or the earth; nor is anything smaller or bigger than that but is in a Manifest Book.7
*5 This they said satirically and mockingly. What they meant was: "This Prophet has been giving us the news of his coming of Resurrection for along tune now, but Resurrection has not overtaken us so far although we have openly denied and rejected him as a Prophet, have been insolent to him and have ridiculed him in every way."

*6 The use of the attribute "Knower of the unseen" for Allah while swearing by him by itself points to the fact that the coming of Resurrection is certain, but no one knows except AIlah, Knower of the unseen, when exactly it will come. This same theme has been explained at different places in the Qur'an in various ways. For details, see AI-A'raf: 187, Ta Ha: 15. Luqman: 34, Al-Ahzab: 63, Al-hulk: 25-26, An-Naziyat: 42-44.

*7 This is one of the arguments for the possibility of the Hereafter as is being stated in verse 7 below. One of the reasons why the deniers of the Hereafter regarded the life-after-death as irrational was ;' They said that when all human beings will have become dust after death, and scattered away in particles, how it will be possible to bring all the countless particles together and combine them to be re-created as the same human bodies once again. This doubt has been dispelled, saying, "Every particle wherever it is, is recorded in God's Register, and God knows where a particle is. Therefore, when He wills to recreate, He will not face any difficulty in gathering together all the particles of the body of each and every man. "



Apart from that most seems common knowledge. A spider's web is weak. You don't say?

Can you please explaian what u mean here by spider web?

"There issues From within their bodies A drink of varying colours,
Wherein is healing for men. [Al-Quraan 16:69]"
We are now aware that honey has a healing property and also a mild
antiseptic property.


I will quote from: http://health.usnews.com/articles/healt ... honey.html

Using honey to treat wounds is hardly a new idea. Anthropologists have found evidence showing ancient Egyptians used the approach as far back as 5,000 years ago. Aristotle wrote of using the sweet stuff as a salve for wounds around 350 B.C.


Is it writen in QURAN for honey used as antiseptic? let me tell you clear explanation of the verse. after you tell me if you find something wrong in Quran or out of wisdom

(16:69) then suck the juice of every kind of fruit and keep treading the ways of your Lord57 which have been made easy." There comes forth from their bellies a drink varied in colours, wherein there is healing for men.58 Verily there is a sign in this for those who reflect.59
*57 " . . . . follow the ways made smooth by thy Lord" : ". . . . . work in accordance with the methods which have been taught to thee by Allah's wahi for the smooth running of hive life" . It is Allah's wahi (instinctive inspiration) that has taught the bees how to build their wonderful factory with separate combs to rear brood, combs to turn nectar into honey, combs to store food, in short, separate combs to fulfil every aspect of hive life. It is wahi that has taught the bees how to organize themselves into a co-operative society for collective effort to run the "factory" with the queen and thousands of workers to perform a variety of specific tasks. AII these things have been made so smooth for them by wahi that the bees never feel the necessity of ever thinking about it. They have been running smoothly their factory with their collective effort for thousands of years with perfect accuracy.

*58 Though honey is a wholesome food with a sweet taste and has medicinal power as well, its latter quality has been mentioned only because the former is too obvious. It is used as a medicine to cure several diseases because it contains the juice and glucose of flowers and fruits in the best form. Besides this, it is also used in preparing and preserving other medicines because it does not rot. It also preserves other things from decay. That is why it has been used for centuries as a substitute for alcohol. And if the bee-hive is built at a place, which abounds in certain medicinal herbs, its honey dces not remain mere honey, but becomes also the essence of that herb. It is expected that if bees are used methodically for extracting essence from herbs, etc. , that essence will prove to be much better than the one obtained in the laboratories.


I'm free to debate any specific point you prefer (won't bother to tackle all of them), but it seems to me the writer made a lot of claims that are incorrect when you compare it to what we DID know back then.

Sure, you can ask anything u feel like, and wil provide u the correct picture of wha Quran say.
Also please provide your source of translation , so we can analyze if its taken from authentic source or not, as we have seen people take matter from wrong sources aswell.

[Wyvern]

Its not fair thn,you have to provide proof that who was paid, by whom and for what purpose?
2ndly, just by looking at the site name, you can;t decide wats insidde, atleast I have provided the link and source,its upto you to look into it, if you dont like, thn dnt see, in this way it will be proven that Quran is right.

You aren't paying attention again. I have looked at the links you provided and quickly determined they were not from a medical web site which is my one and only condition for an acceptable source.

I think you are the one not paying attention, I explained in detail that the medical webbsites are also writen by meddical experts, and the details provided in my link are also science experts, not ordinary men, so this means if something is not suiting you. u wont acccept it. Its showing not a healthy debate anymore

Yes some of the people on your desired sites are scientists however this is a medical issue and as such it is appropriate to use the opinions of medical experts to determine whether your claims are correct. If you fall seriously ill do you go to see a geologist? Please stop obfuscating and come up with the desired links from a medical website or retract your claims.

Y should I take back myclaims when its correct? if you have doubt, you should show your claims if im wrong. the ball is in your court now,

The problem is of course is that I have not made any claims whatsoever. You on the other hand do not seem to be able to adhere to my one and only condition of using a medical website. Instead of supplying said link you try to make me prove something I have not said. It's as simple as this either prove your claim in the manner instructed or say you can't, this is simply ridiculous you make a claim and back it up with a claim from an islamic apologist site and apparantly can't understand why this might not be acceptable.

[T-mash]

Also please provide your source of translation , so we can analyze if its taken from authentic source or not, as we have seen people take matter from wrong sources aswell.

My source of translation was from the opening post. http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf

Is it writen in QURAN for honey used as antiseptic? let me tell you clear explanation of the verse. after you tell me if you find something wrong in Quran or out of wisdom

I was using the link from the OP. The writer argues that the Prophet Muhammad had knowledge he could not possible have, like knowing about the healing power of honey which, according to him, was only found recently. My link shows that Muhammad could have easily known this since it's been known and uses for over 5,000 years. This is just an example to show that the apparently above normal knowledge the writer claimed Muhammad had was already known long before him.

Can you please explaian what u mean here by spider web?

The book in the link states:

The Quraan mentions in Soorah Al-Ankabt, The parable of those who
Take protectors other than Allah Is that of the Spider, Who builds (to
itself) A house; but truly The flimsiest of houses Is the Spiders house " If
they but knew. [Al-Quraan 29:41]
Besides giving the physical description of the spiders web as being very
flimsy, delicate and weak, the Quraan also stresses on the flimsiness of the
relationship in the spiders house, where the female spider many a times kills
its mate, the male spider.

And uses this as a claim that the Quran contains scientific truth it shouldn't be able to know at that time. I fail to see how the fact that a spider web is weak proves this since it is common knowledge.


Your translation of the part I requested:
The unbelievers say: How come the Hour is not coming upon us!5 Say to them: Yes indeed, by my Lord, by Him Who fully knows the realm beyond the ken of perception, that the Hour shall inevitably come upon you.6Nothing escapes Him, not even the smallest particle in the heavens or the earth; nor is anything smaller or bigger than that but is in a Manifest Book.

His translation:

"The Unbelievers say, Never to
us will come The Hour: say, Nay! But most surely, By my Lord, it will
come Upon you " by Him Who knows the unseen " From Whom is not
hidden The least little atom In the Heavens or on earth: Nor is there
anything less Than that, or greater, but Is in the Record Perspicuous.
[Al-Quraan 34:3]"

Like I assumed, he translated smallest particle to atom to suit his own goals.

[Goat]

His translation:

"The Unbelievers say, Never to
us will come The Hour: say, Nay! But most surely, By my Lord, it will
come Upon you " by Him Who knows the unseen " From Whom is not
hidden The least little atom In the Heavens or on earth: Nor is there
anything less Than that, or greater, but Is in the Record Perspicuous.
[Al-Quraan 34:3]"

Like I assumed, he translated smallest particle to atom to suit his own goals.

I will also point out that the concept of the atom was conceived by Leucippus of Miletus in 440 bc. This predates Mohammed by almost 1000 years.

[TrueReligion]

Its not fair thn,you have to provide proof that who was paid, by whom and for what purpose?
2ndly, just by looking at the site name, you can;t decide wats insidde, atleast I have provided the link and source,its upto you to look into it, if you dont like, thn dnt see, in this way it will be proven that Quran is right.

You aren't paying attention again. I have looked at the links you provided and quickly determined they were not from a medical web site which is my one and only condition for an acceptable source.

I think you are the one not paying attention, I explained in detail that the medical webbsites are also writen by meddical experts, and the details provided in my link are also science experts, not ordinary men, so this means if something is not suiting you. u wont acccept it. Its showing not a healthy debate anymore

Yes some of the people on your desired sites are scientists however this is a medical issue and as such it is appropriate to use the opinions of medical experts to determine whether your claims are correct. If you fall seriously ill do you go to see a geologist? Please stop obfuscating and come up with the desired links from a medical website or retract your claims.

Y should I take back myclaims when its correct? if you have doubt, you should show your claims if im wrong. the ball is in your court now,

The problem is of course is that I have not made any claims whatsoever. You on the other hand do not seem to be able to adhere to my one and only condition of using a medical website. Instead of supplying said link you try to make me prove something I have not said. It's as simple as this either prove your claim in the manner instructed or say you can't, this is simply ridiculous you make a claim and back it up with a claim from an islamic apologist site and apparantly can't understand why this might not be acceptable.

No, You asked claim from me,and I provided my proof, you dont have to say you wont accept it, u can only prove it wrong technicaly, now if you think its wrong, bring your evidence to support your decision, otherwise I did my work in best way.

[TrueReligion]

Also please provide your source of translation , so we can analyze if its taken from authentic source or not, as we have seen people take matter from wrong sources aswell.

My source of translation was from the opening post. http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf

In this site its not mention that the earth is round, infact I posted from same site about earth having sperical shape. So where did you got that earth is round? In Quran is not mentioned as well that earth is round

Is it writen in QURAN for honey used as antiseptic? let me tell you clear explanation of the verse. after you tell me if you find something wrong in Quran or out of wisdom

I was using the link from the OP. The writer argues that the Prophet Muhammad had knowledge he could not possible have, like knowing about the healing power of honey which, according to him, was only found recently. My link shows that Muhammad could have easily known this since it's been known and uses for over 5,000 years. This is just an example to show that the apparently above normal knowledge the writer claimed Muhammad had was already known long before him.

If you know, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was illetrate, and he cant read or write, the verses mention in Quran about honey and bee was described precisely, its not that it was discovered 5000 years before and he read that article and copy paste:) Also its not something that you may say that Quran is wrong etc etc, its just information for people,what the translator wrote, its his own mind, cant blame Quran for this

Can you please explaian what u mean here by spider web?

The book in the link states:

The Quraan mentions in Soorah Al-Ankabt, The parable of those who
Take protectors other than Allah Is that of the Spider, Who builds (to
itself) A house; but truly The flimsiest of houses Is the Spiders house " If
they but knew. [Al-Quraan 29:41]
Besides giving the physical description of the spiders web as being very
flimsy, delicate and weak, the Quraan also stresses on the flimsiness of the
relationship in the spiders house, where the female spider many a times kills
its mate, the male spider.

And uses this as a claim that the Quran contains scientific truth it shouldn't be able to know at that time. I fail to see how the fact that a spider web is weak proves this since it is common knowledge.

Every verse and part of Quran you can;t say its about science,Quran is not a science book, little part of it contains the facts related to science. The verse you mention about spider web, you have toget the full context, which starts from verse31 till 42. it describes whenever the disbeliever rejected the prophets and men chosen by God, God destroyed the disbelievers and gave them punishment,and the example is given of spider web, relating tothe false godswhich these disbeliever made, and call them as their protectors beside Allah(God).

(29:41) The case of those who took others than Allah as their protectors is that of a spider who builds a house; but the frailest of all houses is the spider's house; if they only knew.73
*73 All the above-mentioned nations were involved in shirk, and their belief about their deities was that they were their supporters and helpers and guardians, and had the power to make or mar their destinies; so when they will have won their goodwill by worship and. presentation of offerings they will succour them in need and protect them against calamities and afflictions. But, as shown by the historical events cited above, all their beliefs and superstitions proved to be baseless when their destruction was decreed by Allah. Then no god, and no god incarnate, and no saint or spirit, and no jinn or angel, whom they worshipped came to their rescue, and they met their destruction with the realization that their expectations and beliefs had been false and futile. After relating these events, Allah is now warning the mushriks to the effect: "The reality of the toy-house of expectations that you have built on your faith in the powerless servants and imaginary deities, apart from the real Master and Ruler of the universe, is no more than the cobweb of a spider. Just as a cobweb cannot stand the slightest interference by a finger, so will the toy-house of your expectations collapse in its first clash with the scheme of Allah. It is nothing but ignorance that you are involved in the web of superstition. Had you any knowledge of the Reality you would not have built your system of life on baseless props. The fact is that none other than the One Lord of the worlds in this universe is the Owner of power and authority, and His support is the only support which is reliable.


Your translation of the part I requested:
The unbelievers say: How come the Hour is not coming upon us!5 Say to them: Yes indeed, by my Lord, by Him Who fully knows the realm beyond the ken of perception, that the Hour shall inevitably come upon you.6Nothing escapes Him, not even the smallest particle in the heavens or the earth; nor is anything smaller or bigger than that but is in a Manifest Book.

His translation:

"The Unbelievers say, Never to
us will come The Hour: say, Nay! But most surely, By my Lord, it will
come Upon you " by Him Who knows the unseen " From Whom is not
hidden The least little atom In the Heavens or on earth: Nor is there
anything less Than that, or greater, but Is in the Record Perspicuous.
[Al-Quraan 34:3]"

Like I assumed, he translated smallest particle to atom to suit his own goals.

Smallest particle hidden inside, the word atom used is for example, it doesnt reflect real ATOM or something like that, the verse means that even smalles thing is not hidden from Allah.
Its like this we tel to kids, we know whatever you do, can;t hidefrom us, so dont do bad things. there is nothing scientific in this.

Hope my explanation for all your questions is quite clear.

[TrueReligion]

His translation:

"The Unbelievers say, Never to
us will come The Hour: say, Nay! But most surely, By my Lord, it will
come Upon you " by Him Who knows the unseen " From Whom is not
hidden The least little atom In the Heavens or on earth: Nor is there
anything less Than that, or greater, but Is in the Record Perspicuous.
[Al-Quraan 34:3]"

Like I assumed, he translated smallest particle to atom to suit his own goals.

I will also point out that the concept of the atom was conceived by Leucippus of Miletus in 440 bc. This predates Mohammed by almost 1000 years.

Goat, the translator used the word "ATOM" as an example, the actual word used is the smallest particle, you are making it the atom of science, but here its used as an example.. I will provide another translation here for the verse. Again, dont take Quran as science book, some facts of science ar used in Quran,its bok for guidance actualy for benefit of mankind.

(34:3) The unbelievers say: How come the Hour is not coming upon us!5 Say to them: Yes indeed, by my Lord, by Him Who fully knows the realm beyond the ken of perception, that the Hour shall inevitably come upon you.6Nothing escapes Him, not even the smallest particle in the heavens or the earth; nor is anything smaller or bigger than that but is in a Manifest Book.7