Muslims worship Muhammad…

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Pazuzu bin Hanbi
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Muslims worship Muhammad…

Post #1

Post by Pazuzu bin Hanbi »

OK, now no muslim would state that they worship Muhammad. They may even believe that they worship Allah alone, but their actions and creedal testimonies put Muhammad in a position that other religions reserve for God. Even Yeshua‘ in the Bible, and ancient Assyrians, as well as other pagan groups, exhorted that we as people imitate God to achieve the Good Life. Yeshua‘, for example, repeatedly states that people should copy God’s sense of mercy, justice, etc. Muslims, however, do their utmost to emulate Muhammad.

A couple of quotes. The first from the excellent contemporary scholarly book called Muslims: Their religious beliefs and practices by Andrew Rippin (don’t let the title fool you — he delves deep into the various elements that have combined to form Islam from its pre–history to the present day and includes current scholarship on Islam, challenging traditionally–accepted views on Islamic ‘history’):
While Muslims may think those who deny the existence of God or who utter blasphemies about Him are misguided, such discussions will not offend in the same manner in which discussions over Muhammad will. Those who insinuate evil of Muhammad or who cast aspersions on him are considered to be insulting Islam. This, upon consideration, is not surprising.


I know this myself, from having grown up in an Islamic community. It means muslims put Muhammad at the centre of Islam, not Allah! And the reactions Rippin notes above made me recall a passage I read in an autobiographical work by Ziauddin Sardar, a well–written and witty, not to mention interesting, book called Desperately Seeking Paradise. In this extract Sardar details his reaction to reading Rushdie’s The Satanic Verses:
Rushdie had plundered everything I hold dear and despoiled the inner sanctum of my identity. Every word was directed at me and I took everything personally. This is how, I remember thinking, it must feel to be raped… The life of the Prophet Muhammad is the source of Muslim identity. Muslims do not merely emulate his character and personality and follow his sayings and actions: it is the Prophet Muhammad who provides them with the ultimate reason for being a Muslim.

I do wonder if he or others would react like this if someone spoke out against Allah as opposed to Muhammad. Presented for your consideration: the reaction of muslims worldwide to the Danish cartoons (nobody lampooned Allah, only Muhammad), and the case of the Teddy Bear Named Muhammad (I recall some sources referring to this as ‘blasphemy’ — surely only a crime against God ranks as blasphemy?).
لا إلـــــــــــــــــــــــــــه

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Post #161

Post by Rathpig »

goat wrote:.... and misapplying it.
Actually, I am not "misapplying it" in the least. For one to be a "theist", it is not expected that one worship or believe in all gods. Applying "a" to the word "theist" does not somehow distort the root word into universal application.

Now of course this literal application of the word is going to upset partisan theists because much of their divisive philosophy depends on exclusion and hatred toward other faiths and especially "atheism". The fact that they are atheists themselves requires cognitive dissonance to avoid.

It is hard for them to continue this hatred and division when they are more than 99% atheists themselves. So of course I expect them to reject the concept. Religion depends on division and hatred.

Islam codifies this division and hatred directly in the Five Pillars.

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Post #162

Post by Thought Criminal »

Rathpig wrote:
Thought Criminal wrote:The more moderate versions of these religions are what enable the fundamentalist ones to exist.
Though this is true and applies strongly to all religions, especially Christianity and Islam, the fact remains that the mainstream Christian sects soundly reject the radical elements while Islam only rejects them when politically expedient.

Saudi Arabia is a primary example of how closely "moderate" Islam embraces radical religious doctrine.
I wouldn't call Saudi Arabia moderate.

TC

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Post #163

Post by Rathpig »

Thought Criminal wrote:I wouldn't call Saudi Arabia moderate.
Which is my point.

If Islam is a "moderate" religion of peace, and the radicals are an anomaly, it would stand to reason that the center of the Islamic universe would be pressured to adopt at least a pro forma moderate stance. This is not the case.

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Post #164

Post by Thought Criminal »

Rathpig wrote:
Thought Criminal wrote:I wouldn't call Saudi Arabia moderate.
Which is my point.

If Islam is a "moderate" religion of peace, and the radicals are an anomaly, it would stand to reason that the center of the Islamic universe would be pressured to adopt at least a pro forma moderate stance. This is not the case.
That would be due to the fact that the Muslim center of gravity is fundamentalist.

TC

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Post #165

Post by Rathpig »

Thought Criminal wrote:That would be due to the fact that the Muslim center of gravity is fundamentalist.
That does seem readily apparent.

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Pazuzu bin Hanbi
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Post #166

Post by Pazuzu bin Hanbi »

I went to my parents’ house. They’re ordinary sunni muslims. Look what I found on their mantelpiece and their wall!

Image
Image

The name on the right is ‘allah’ and that on the left ‘Muhammad’. The framed ones start with the word ‘Ya’ as in ‘O Allah’ and ‘O Muhammad’. Please note that these are god–abiding, good muslims who don’t believe in intercessors between humans and allah, and yet think nothing of these things which put Muhammad alongside allah in prominence…
لا إلـــــــــــــــــــــــــــه

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Post #167

Post by muhammad rasullah »

Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:I went to my parents’ house. They’re ordinary sunni muslims. Look what I found on their mantelpiece and their wall!

Image
Image

The name on the right is ‘allah’ and that on the left ‘Muhammad’. The framed ones start with the word ‘Ya’ as in ‘O Allah’ and ‘O Muhammad’. Please note that these are god–abiding, good muslims who don’t believe in intercessors between humans and allah, and yet think nothing of these things which put Muhammad alongside allah in prominence…
Wow I dont believe this!! So what you are saying is that just because these to frames are next to each other with O Allah and O Muhammad written in arabic that muslims worship The prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him)! I have to say this is very ridiculous. So if my mother and my father stand next to each other and I say to them O mother and O Father am I worshiping them really you've got to be kidding me!! In this if you were trying to prove any case it still in this does not set aside or distinguish which one is being worshipped because worship is not taking place this frame of Allah and Muhammad it is not an act of worship because it has no religious significance.
Bismillahir rahmaanir Raheem \"In The Name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful\"

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Post #168

Post by muhammad rasullah »

Rathpig wrote:
Thought Criminal wrote:I wouldn't call Saudi Arabia moderate.
Which is my point.

If Islam is a "moderate" religion of peace, and the radicals are an anomaly, it would stand to reason that the center of the Islamic universe would be pressured to adopt at least a pro forma moderate stance. This is not the case.
Why would they be pressured into adopting it? what is your reasoning? Becasue a select few of the millions of muslims in the world. And in that part of the world.
Bismillahir rahmaanir Raheem \"In The Name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful\"

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Post #169

Post by Rathpig »

muhammad rasullah wrote:
Rathpig wrote:
Thought Criminal wrote:I wouldn't call Saudi Arabia moderate.
Which is my point.

If Islam is a "moderate" religion of peace, and the radicals are an anomaly, it would stand to reason that the center of the Islamic universe would be pressured to adopt at least a pro forma moderate stance. This is not the case.
Why would they be pressured into adopting it? what is your reasoning? Becasue a select few of the millions of muslims in the world. And in that part of the world.
Because the core of Islam is fundamentalist, the heart of the Islamic world is fundamentalist.

If the core of Islam was moderate, the heart of the Islamic world would be moderate.

The radical elements of Islam are not a "select few". They are millions if not a majority. This is the problem with Islam. The so-called "moderate" Muslims are merely those who are not in a position to make an overt fundamentalist stance. Once the political situation becomes ripe, you see the movement of Islam toward the fundamentalist core. Re: Britain 2008.

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Post #170

Post by Rathpig »

muhammad rasullah wrote:So what you are saying is that just because these to frames are next to each other with O Allah and O Muhammad written in arabic that muslims worship The prophet Muhammad ...
So if I am a Muslim and I have the stylized name of Allah and a statue of the Buddha on the same shelf at the same height it is not an affront to Allah if I simply say, "Oh I don't worship the Buddha" ?

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