Can the Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error?

[McCulloch]

The Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error.

Can the Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error? If the same principles that disprove the Koran were applied to the Bible, would the Bible be disproven too?

[muhammad rasullah]

In conclusion, the mistake made by Mr. Newton is to claim that the declension Saabi'uuna is wrong and that the right declension is so and so. Maybe, he was not aware of some aspects of the Arabic language.

Why set up a straw man with this Mr Newton quoted from another site? The video I posted the link to features someone who has grown up with Arabic and speaks and understands it fluently, including grammar.

You speak as if you know him personally. It's not a straw man argument you are paying to much attention to the name Mr. Newton and not the evidence which I presented countering what he said in the video about surah 5:69. If he was fluent then he wouldn't have made such a clumsy mistake.

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

I do know him personally, and he was born into a muslim family and remained a hardcore muslim for nigh on 40 years. He's even written and had published works on Islam when he followed it. He is now an ex-muslim, but that doesn't change his understanding of Arabic, a language as natural to him as English to me.

[Jian^sia]

The Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error.

Can the Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error? If the same principles that disprove the Koran were applied to the Bible, would the Bible be disproven too?

Yes the Quran can be disproven. For it contradicts the Bible.

Can the Quran be used to disprove itself. Possibly. I haven't researched that much.

An example:

(a)Do not argue with the Jews and the Christians.
(b)Kill all the non-believers/infidels + Christians.

And again:
(a)Look to the Torah and Bible, read it.
(b)The Bible is changed therefore only the Qu'ran is perfect.

(I do not have the verses.)

[Ms_Maryam]

The Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error.

Can the Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error? If the same principles that disprove the Koran were applied to the Bible, would the Bible be disproven too?

Yes the Quran can be disproven. For it contradicts the Bible.

Can the Quran be used to disprove itself. Possibly. I haven't researched that much.

An example:

(a)Do not argue with the Jews and the Christians.
(b)Kill all the non-believers/infidels + Christians.

And again:
(a)Look to the Torah and Bible, read it.
(b)The Bible is changed therefore only the Qu'ran is perfect.

(I do not have the verses.)

Let's not try to compare the Quran to the Bible when it comes to trying to show any "contradictions." That's assuming everyone believes in the Bible. What about those who don't believe in the Bible. How would you prove it to them?

I haven't researched that much.

You should do that first then.

For your example, you said the Quran says: "Kill all the non-believers/infidels+Christians." Please find the verse in the Quran where it says this.

[Jian^sia]

The Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error.

Can the Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error? If the same principles that disprove the Koran were applied to the Bible, would the Bible be disproven too?

Yes the Quran can be disproven. For it contradicts the Bible.

Can the Quran be used to disprove itself. Possibly. I haven't researched that much.

An example:

(a)Do not argue with the Jews and the Christians.
(b)Kill all the non-believers/infidels + Christians.

And again:
(a)Look to the Torah and Bible, read it.
(b)The Bible is changed therefore only the Qu'ran is perfect.

(I do not have the verses.)

Let's not try to compare the Quran to the Bible when it comes to trying to show any "contradictions." That's assuming everyone believes in the Bible. What about those who don't believe in the Bible. How would you prove it to them?

I haven't researched that much.

You should do that first then.

For your example, you said the Quran says: "Kill all the non-believers/infidels+Christians." Please find the verse in the Quran where it says this.

Ms Maryam, with all due respect, I'm not making statements, you can correct me where I am wrong.

I found this verse, although you have to put in context, it reads: "Once the sacred months are past and they refuse to make peace, you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers and the Obligatory Charity you shall let them go. God is forgiver and, Most Merciful."[9:5]

The context is, you they make peace with you.

There is another verse, which reads: "You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and HIs messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the Scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly." [9:29]

I don't know whether you have to put this into context - unbelievers who do not pay taxes. Or whether the context is those who don't pay taxes.

Anyway about this, I have to mention the jihad. I think that this is probably a huge cause for one to do acts against non-believers? What do you think?
And what's up with the 72 virgins?

[muhammad rasullah]

The Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error.

Can the Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error? If the same principles that disprove the Koran were applied to the Bible, would the Bible be disproven too?

Yes the Quran can be disproven. For it contradicts the Bible.

Can the Quran be used to disprove itself. Possibly. I haven't researched that much.

An example:

(a)Do not argue with the Jews and the Christians.
(b)Kill all the non-believers/infidels + Christians.

And again:
(a)Look to the Torah and Bible, read it.
(b)The Bible is changed therefore only the Qu'ran is perfect.

(I do not have the verses.)

Let's not try to compare the Quran to the Bible when it comes to trying to show any "contradictions." That's assuming everyone believes in the Bible. What about those who don't believe in the Bible. How would you prove it to them?

I haven't researched that much.

You should do that first then.

For your example, you said the Quran says: "Kill all the non-believers/infidels+Christians." Please find the verse in the Quran where it says this.

Ms Maryam, with all due respect, I'm not making statements, you can correct me where I am wrong.

I found this verse, although you have to put in context, it reads: "Once the sacred months are past and they refuse to make peace, you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers and the Obligatory Charity you shall let them go. God is forgiver and, Most Merciful."[9:5]

The context is, you they make peace with you.

There is another verse, which reads: "You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and HIs messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the Scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly." [9:29]

I don't know whether you have to put this into context - unbelievers who do not pay taxes. Or whether the context is those who don't pay taxes.

Anyway about this, I have to mention the jihad. I think that this is probably a huge cause for one to do acts against non-believers? What do you think?
And what's up with the 72 virgins?

I am not sure what error you are trying to show with these verses? But if you are seeking clarification of the meaning, context, and interpretation then here it is.

Ali the cousin and companion of the prophet (pbuh) was told to deliver the first thirty ayahs to the pagans in Mecca

Surah 9:5 the verse begins by Allah giving immunity to the pagans and the prophet freeing them both from any treaties they had between them. Allah then gives them four months to travel throughout the land. They are then in the tafsir instructed that the pagans will not be able to attend the hajj after this year 9th year of the Hijra. Verse 4, the treaties with the pagans that extend past four months will be fulfilled. Verse 9:5 (Y. Ali) But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
And Verse 9:29 9:29 (Y. Ali) Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
After the four months have passed then they were order to fight those pagans at war with Allah and his messenger unless, they are those who come from a land at war with Muslims to the area of Islam, delivering a message, for business transactions, to negotiate a peace treaty, to pay the Jizyah, to offer an end to hostilities, and so forth, and request safe passage from Muslim leaders or their deputies, should be granted safe passage, as long as they remain in Muslim areas, until they go back to their land and sanctuary. If they did not pay the Jizyah then they were not given the Dhimmah (promise of protection).

And what 72 virgins are you talking about?

[Jian^sia]

The Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error.

Can the Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error? If the same principles that disprove the Koran were applied to the Bible, would the Bible be disproven too?

Yes the Quran can be disproven. For it contradicts the Bible.

Can the Quran be used to disprove itself. Possibly. I haven't researched that much.

An example:

(a)Do not argue with the Jews and the Christians.
(b)Kill all the non-believers/infidels + Christians.

And again:
(a)Look to the Torah and Bible, read it.
(b)The Bible is changed therefore only the Qu'ran is perfect.

(I do not have the verses.)

Let's not try to compare the Quran to the Bible when it comes to trying to show any "contradictions." That's assuming everyone believes in the Bible. What about those who don't believe in the Bible. How would you prove it to them?

I haven't researched that much.

You should do that first then.

For your example, you said the Quran says: "Kill all the non-believers/infidels+Christians." Please find the verse in the Quran where it says this.

Ms Maryam, with all due respect, I'm not making statements, you can correct me where I am wrong.

I found this verse, although you have to put in context, it reads: "Once the sacred months are past and they refuse to make peace, you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers and the Obligatory Charity you shall let them go. God is forgiver and, Most Merciful."[9:5]

The context is, you they make peace with you.

There is another verse, which reads: "You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and HIs messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the Scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly." [9:29]

I don't know whether you have to put this into context - unbelievers who do not pay taxes. Or whether the context is those who don't pay taxes.

Anyway about this, I have to mention the jihad. I think that this is probably a huge cause for one to do acts against non-believers? What do you think?
And what's up with the 72 virgins?

I am not sure what error you are trying to show with these verses? But if you are seeking clarification of the meaning, context, and interpretation then here it is.

Ali the cousin and companion of the prophet (pbuh) was told to deliver the first thirty ayahs to the pagans in Mecca

Surah 9:5 the verse begins by Allah giving immunity to the pagans and the prophet freeing them both from any treaties they had between them. Allah then gives them four months to travel throughout the land. They are then in the tafsir instructed that the pagans will not be able to attend the hajj after this year 9th year of the Hijra. Verse 4, the treaties with the pagans that extend past four months will be fulfilled. Verse 9:5 (Y. Ali) But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
And Verse 9:29 9:29 (Y. Ali) Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
After the four months have passed then they were order to fight those pagans at war with Allah and his messenger unless, they are those who come from a land at war with Muslims to the area of Islam, delivering a message, for business transactions, to negotiate a peace treaty, to pay the Jizyah, to offer an end to hostilities, and so forth, and request safe passage from Muslim leaders or their deputies, should be granted safe passage, as long as they remain in Muslim areas, until they go back to their land and sanctuary. If they did not pay the Jizyah then they were not given the Dhimmah (promise of protection).

And what 72 virgins are you talking about?

Of course it's the 72 virgins promised to jihadists.

[Ms_Maryam]

Of course it's the 72 virgins promised to jihadists.

72 virgins aren't promised to jihadist in Islam.

Where did you get this?

[Jian^sia]

Of course it's the 72 virgins promised to jihadists.

72 virgins aren't promised to jihadist in Islam.

Where did you get this?

I can't remember. Maybe I'm wrong.

So who are 72 virgins promised to?

Do you know what the Bible says?

[Bag-Of-Hammers]

The Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error.

Can the Koran can be disproven and shown to be in error? If the same principles that disprove the Koran were applied to the Bible, would the Bible be disproven too?

The Koran says that Jesus was not the son of God, but a mere prophet that was never crucified. Stating that you could possibly know any better than the New Testement without having been an actual eye witness makes you a liar.