Is the Qu'ran self-evidently true?

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Sat May 03, 2008 10:29 am

paarsurrey wrote:Quran is self-evident, yes very truly.

Is the Qu'ran self-evidently true?

TrueReligion · Post by **TrueReligion** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:34 am

Wyvern wrote:
I'm now pretty sure that you have lack of understannding religions.
Thats why I said better ask in your area, or do plenty of research for religions, and get to know about Satan. If you are looking for Satan as Jinn in Judaism and christianity, you are on wrong lane, Jinn is arabic term, and ofcourse you can;t find it there..
Now if even reading the article, where its clearly writen SATAN is same in abrahamic religions, you are still persisting that its not. so means you are not ready to accept any kind of authentic source, which is going against your will and mind.

http://www.experiencefestival.com/exorc ... in_judaism

If you say that Satan does'nt have free will in Judaism and christianity, you are wrong again, because in many part of Judaism and christianity, its stated as well.
The temptation which SATAN gave Adam and Eve, does;nt show free will of Satan to you?

Therefore its no use of arguing and debating. Ive proved through authentic sources, my work is done.
Thanks and take care
No sorry, your articles simply are not saying what you want them to say. Islam has both djinn and angels and yes the article did say that Satan is the same concept but you ignore that the article also says Satan is a fallen angel. Are you now going to say angels and djinn are the same even though islam states otherwise? Satan is the same in all three religions and god also is the same in all three religions, however the argument you have been putting forth is that Satan is a djinn and every article you have used has said Satan is a former angel. If you think I've been arguing that the concept of Satan is different in the three religions you obviously have either not been paying attention or you need to increase your comprehension of english or both.
Satan is simply the personification of evil but the class of entity it is is that of an angel, not a djinn.

The site is explaining of exorcism, the concept which exists in all 3 religions,,.
Now our last part remaining of discussion to agree is whether Satan is Jinn or an angel..
1stly you should know what are angels maede up offf. and what are jinnns made up off.
Now you show me, where Satann is mentione as an angel in Quran, Bible and Torah. show me verse in al three, we will discuss for them

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:43 am

The site is explaining of exorcism, the concept which exists in all 3 religions,,.
Now our last part remaining of discussion to agree is whether Satan is Jinn or an angel..
1stly you should know what are angels maede up offf. and what are jinnns made up off.
Now you show me, where Satann is mentione as an angel in Quran, Bible and Torah. show me verse in al three, we will discuss for them.

Who mentioned exorcisms? You are the one that made the claim that Satan is a djinn so it is your job to prove just that. Yes Islam claims Satan is a djinn but the other two are quite clear that he is a fallen angel. Considering Islam was the last of the three it is unusual they would differ on this point. Anyways looking forward to you showing a link that says Satan is a creature made of invisible smokeless and heatless fire.

TrueReligion · Post by **TrueReligion** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:26 am

Wyvern wrote:
The site is explaining of exorcism, the concept which exists in all 3 religions,,.
Now our last part remaining of discussion to agree is whether Satan is Jinn or an angel..
1stly you should know what are angels maede up offf. and what are jinnns made up off.
Now you show me, where Satann is mentione as an angel in Quran, Bible and Torah. show me verse in al three, we will discuss for them.
Who mentioned exorcisms? You are the one that made the claim that Satan is a djinn so it is your job to prove just that. Yes Islam claims Satan is a djinn but the other two are quite clear that he is a fallen angel. Considering Islam was the last of the three it is unusual they would differ on this point. Anyways looking forward to you showing a link that says Satan is a creature made of invisible smokeless and heatless fire.

Still you want link? what r all those which are provided earlier? you seems to be having problem of understanding simple words and what it means by links.

everything is already meentionedd, all you have to do is just browse all, get results, and thn finaly we will conclude eeverything

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:01 am

TrueReligion wrote:
You will show experiment results , but you can;t show them in real:)
Science make its claim on theories and experiments, and assumptions, but many things science could;nt detect in real.
Did anny1 saw in real if ape-man turn into human? or they just made assumptions?

Well, that is a mischaracterisation of evolution if I ever saw one.

We have this thing known as 'fossils'. Fossils are 'Tangible physical and objective evidence'. Do you know what objective means, and evidence means.

The concept that man and apes share a common ancestor is a conclusion based on two main pieces of evidence. The first piece was the fossil evidence, and it was confirmed via looking at the DNA.

Yes, they are claims, but there is actual physical evidence that can be examined.

What do you have for Jinn?

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:36 pm

TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
The site is explaining of exorcism, the concept which exists in all 3 religions,,.
Now our last part remaining of discussion to agree is whether Satan is Jinn or an angel..
1stly you should know what are angels maede up offf. and what are jinnns made up off.
Now you show me, where Satann is mentione as an angel in Quran, Bible and Torah. show me verse in al three, we will discuss for them.
Who mentioned exorcisms? You are the one that made the claim that Satan is a djinn so it is your job to prove just that. Yes Islam claims Satan is a djinn but the other two are quite clear that he is a fallen angel. Considering Islam was the last of the three it is unusual they would differ on this point. Anyways looking forward to you showing a link that says Satan is a creature made of invisible smokeless and heatless fire.
Still you want link? what r all those which are provided earlier? you seems to be having problem of understanding simple words and what it means by links.

everything is already meentionedd, all you have to do is just browse all, get results, and thn finaly we will conclude eeverything

So you refuse to show that Satan was a djinn which is what you are claiming. None of the links you have shown thus far have said as such, even other web sites I looked at state in judaism and christianity Satan is an angel, so you have to show why they are wrong and you are right.

TrueReligion · Post by **TrueReligion** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:56 pm

goat wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
You will show experiment results , but you can;t show them in real:)
Science make its claim on theories and experiments, and assumptions, but many things science could;nt detect in real.
Did anny1 saw in real if ape-man turn into human? or they just made assumptions?
Well, that is a mischaracterisation of evolution if I ever saw one.

We have this thing known as 'fossils'. Fossils are 'Tangible physical and objective evidence'. Do you know what objective means, and evidence means.

The concept that man and apes share a common ancestor is a conclusion based on two main pieces of evidence. The first piece was the fossil evidence, and it was confirmed via looking at the DNA.

Yes, they are claims, but there is actual physical evidence that can be examined.

What do you have for Jinn?

But do fossils provide you approx date? and does those fossil tellyou how big bang hapen? wat was there totaly before millions of years before?ofcourse not, its just assumption, no solid evidence

no it was;nt confirmed:) that theory was already rejected, many scientists are still not accepting it, only rejected scientists and people are believing in that/

We have evidence that Satan as a kind of Jinn, can make mind and soul evil of human, and that human will be away from teachings and belief of God, and went on to do bad things, like idol worshiping, incest, athiest etcetc.

TrueReligion · Post by **TrueReligion** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:04 pm

Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
The site is explaining of exorcism, the concept which exists in all 3 religions,,.
Now our last part remaining of discussion to agree is whether Satan is Jinn or an angel..
1stly you should know what are angels maede up offf. and what are jinnns made up off.
Now you show me, where Satann is mentione as an angel in Quran, Bible and Torah. show me verse in al three, we will discuss for them.
Who mentioned exorcisms? You are the one that made the claim that Satan is a djinn so it is your job to prove just that. Yes Islam claims Satan is a djinn but the other two are quite clear that he is a fallen angel. Considering Islam was the last of the three it is unusual they would differ on this point. Anyways looking forward to you showing a link that says Satan is a creature made of invisible smokeless and heatless fire.
Still you want link? what r all those which are provided earlier? you seems to be having problem of understanding simple words and what it means by links.

everything is already meentionedd, all you have to do is just browse all, get results, and thn finaly we will conclude eeverything
So you refuse to show that Satan was a djinn which is what you are claiming. None of the links you have shown thus far have said as such, even other web sites I looked at state in judaism and christianity Satan is an angel, so you have to show why they are wrong and you are right.

No, those websites and my statements are 100% right, you are wrong here sir.
Because, you are thinking the that word (Jinn) is used in Judaism and christianity.
you are wrong, never inyour life you will find that, and you are also thinking that they are not made up off smokeless fire? read bible you will find it aswell

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:07 pm

We have evidence that Satan as a kind of Jinn, can make mind and soul evil of human, and that human will be away from teachings and belief of God, and went on to do bad things, like idol worshiping, incest, athiest etcetc.

You claim you have evidence that proves satan is a djinn, then provide it. Uncover this supposed proof and millions of folk will be swarming to their nearest mosque.

TrueReligion · Post by **TrueReligion** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:11 pm

Wyvern wrote:
We have evidence that Satan as a kind of Jinn, can make mind and soul evil of human, and that human will be away from teachings and belief of God, and went on to do bad things, like idol worshiping, incest, athiest etcetc.
You claim you have evidence that proves satan is a djinn, then provide it. Uncover this supposed proof and millions of folk will be swarming to their nearest mosque.

Find the dictionary, and find the corresponding or same meaning of arabic word Jinn in other religions, and thn find also wat jinn is made up off. all are related to each other

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:15 pm

TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
The site is explaining of exorcism, the concept which exists in all 3 religions,,.
Now our last part remaining of discussion to agree is whether Satan is Jinn or an angel..
1stly you should know what are angels maede up offf. and what are jinnns made up off.
Now you show me, where Satann is mentione as an angel in Quran, Bible and Torah. show me verse in al three, we will discuss for them.
Who mentioned exorcisms? You are the one that made the claim that Satan is a djinn so it is your job to prove just that. Yes Islam claims Satan is a djinn but the other two are quite clear that he is a fallen angel. Considering Islam was the last of the three it is unusual they would differ on this point. Anyways looking forward to you showing a link that says Satan is a creature made of invisible smokeless and heatless fire.
Still you want link? what r all those which are provided earlier? you seems to be having problem of understanding simple words and what it means by links.

everything is already meentionedd, all you have to do is just browse all, get results, and thn finaly we will conclude eeverything
So you refuse to show that Satan was a djinn which is what you are claiming. None of the links you have shown thus far have said as such, even other web sites I looked at state in judaism and christianity Satan is an angel, so you have to show why they are wrong and you are right.
No, those websites and my statements are 100% right, you are wrong here sir.
Because, you are thinking the that word (Jinn) is used in Judaism and christianity.
you are wrong, never inyour life you will find that, and you are also thinking that they are not made up off smokeless fire? read bible you will find it aswell

Bloody hell do I have to put in a disclaimer everytime I use the word djinn? I have stated a number of times now my understanding of djinn which is why I said I would accept anything saying satan is made of a smokeless fire. I have read the bible and don't remember anything referring to satan as being made of smokeless fire, so I'll need you to provide me a link for that claim as well. Your statements and the links you gave can not both be correct since they contradict one another.