Morality of Suicide

What would you do if?

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Andre_5772
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Morality of Suicide

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Post by Andre_5772 »

For quite some time, I have been of the opinion that suicide is always immoral. This intuition arises out of my awe at how complicated and delicate the human body is, yet how elegantly all these systems work together, for the most part.

However I read something the other day which was to the effect of, "Life is for learning and growing, not for suffering through." I have to admit that this makes a lot of sense to me, too. But this leads to the possibility that at times suicide is justified. Specifically, when one can reasonably expect an excess of suffering in the future, and this condition will prevent any significant growth as a person, contribution to society, or whatever that person finds meaningful.

When I thought about this further, I realized that I probably wouldn't begrudge someone who committed suicide, provided they had rationally come to the conclusion that these criteria were satisfied. While I would never advise suicide, I think my view has changed to the point where I can accept it in certain circumstances without condemning it. I'm wondering what others think about the morality of suicide. Is it on par with murder because it ends a human life? Or is it a different act because rational beings are free to choose death for themselves although not for others?

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Post #91

Post by McCulloch »

I have no problem with those who choose to endure to the bitter end. If unnecessary pain and suffering is what they want, I won't object to their choice. So long as it is their choice. If your religious philosophy teaches that your pain and suffering is somehow an offering for others, then hey, knock yourself out (not literally because that would defeat the purpose).

But it should be a matter of choice. It is not immoral for someone who does not share your massocistic philosophy to be allowed to choose when and how to end their suffering. I'm not saying that a healthy life is worth more than an unhealthy life. I'm saying that we all should be allowed to determine when our lives are not worth living anymore.

Where do you draw the line? Isn't a DNR (do not resuscitate) ethically the same as suicide?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
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Re: Rather in Heaven than living under Satan and for Satan..

Post #92

Post by Aetixintro »

RightReason wrote: What is unbearable?
"Conclusion: I'd rather see a person who has committed suicide in Heaven than serving Satan on Earth. If the sanity/soul is threatened then suicide is fine!"

If the person was serving Satan on Earth, you will not see them in heaven. And insanity or mental illness is not a sin. Are you saying it would be better off if those among us who suffer from mental illness/depression/even psychotic tendencies were encouraged to kill themselves?
Unbearable: Well, there are mental pains and there are physical pains. There is no particular way to say exactly what unbearable pains are but the self-report.

I intend to say that if you feel the choice is between serving Satan and killing yourself, I think it's best to kill oneself, but the choice is always with the person who considers it. I never recommend others to kill themselves. I find that unethical.
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Re: Rather in Heaven than living under Satan and for Satan..

Post #93

Post by RightReason »

[Replying to Aetixintro]
I intend to say that if you feel the choice is between serving Satan and killing yourself, I think it's best to kill oneself
I still don't understand what that means. Can you give an example of someone choosing to kill themselves other than serve Satan?

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Re: Rather in Heaven than living under Satan and for Satan..

Post #94

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to post 92 by RightReason]

Ever heard of peer pressure and threats of violence, rape and torture? Ahh... those!
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Re: Rather in Heaven than living under Satan and for Satan..

Post #95

Post by RightReason »

[Replying to post 93 by Aetixintro]
Ever heard of peer pressure and threats of violence, rape and torture? Ahh... those!
I'm sorry, I'm a little slow sometimes . . .

Are you saying a person who is say threatened to be raped or tortured ought to be permitted to kill themselves because in your opinion to be raped or tortured would be serving Satan?

Or are you saying a person who has desires to rape or torture someone should kill themselves instead rather than do such horrendous things?

Also, I have no idea how or where peer pressure comes into play. Like I said, I am having a hard time following your reasoning. Could you please elaborate or give some specific example where you think suicide is acceptable due to your above quote. Thank you.

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Re: Rather in Heaven than living under Satan and for Satan..

Post #96

Post by Aetixintro »

[Replying to post 94 by RightReason]
Are you saying a person who is say threatened to be raped or tortured ought to be permitted to kill themselves because in your opinion to be raped or tortured would be serving Satan?
No, that they want to avoid getting violated or tortured that they join the abuse or torture of another.
Or are you saying a person who has desires to rape or torture someone should kill themselves instead rather than do such horrendous things?
I may say that people who have intents to kill or torture other people rather should kill themselves. Not an "or" situation, really.
Also, I have no idea how or where peer pressure comes into play. Like I said, I am having a hard time following your reasoning. Could you please elaborate or give some specific example where you think suicide is acceptable due to your above quote. Thank you.
Sometimes, peer pressure demands the immoral and the more strange a group/club/gang/social group is, the more strange things they do such as implicitly forcing others to abuse or torture people! Get it? I happen to think the examples are everywhere on planet Earth and thus many!

Do we have understanding?

(I note that this is posted under Ethical Dilemmas. It can't be only me who understands reality to be this way.)
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Re: Rather in Heaven than living under Satan and for Satan..

Post #97

Post by RightReason »

[Replying to post 95 by Aetixintro]
Do we have understanding?

Kind of. It still appears your thought process is more like it is ok to do something wrong or immoral if it might prevent some other wrong or immoral act. I disagree with that kind of thinking. Committing one immoral act does not negate the wrongness of it just because you could argue some other bad could be prevented. That’s not the way it works, yet that has been the rationalization of evil throughout history.

If a person was forced to torture another person, rather than kill themselves to prevent themselves from doing so, why wouldn’t they just refuse to take part in the evil and the evil doer I guess would kill them – problem solved. I am unclear why suicide would ever be necessary.

Sorry, still don’t get it.

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Re: Morality of Suicide

Post #98

Post by Dimmesdale »

[Replying to post 1 by Andre_5772]

I would say suicide is justified if one can no longer live an ethical life sufficiently that it may hurt people in serious ways.

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Re: Morality of Suicide

Post #99

Post by RightReason »

[Replying to post 97 by Dimmesdale]
I would say suicide is justified if one can no longer live an ethical life sufficiently that it may hurt people in serious ways.
I disagree. If one felt/knew they would kill and knew it would be wrong to do so, the moral thing to do would be to tell someone you ought to be locked up in order to prevent such a thing. It would still be immoral to kill yourself.

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