Should Christians keep the law?

[otseng]

From the thread Keeping the commandments:

Do you keep the law?

Questions for debate:
Should Christians keep the law?
If so, how much of the laws should we keep?

[2timothy316]

It amazes me how the question is about the law and people quote passages from the Christian testament. Thats not where the law comes from. And those who you quote arent the ones who set the laws.

In this forum the 66 books of the Bible, including the Greek Scriptures, what you know as the New Testament, can be used as an authoritative reference. You don't have to accept it but if you deny it as an authoritative reference then you're not going to get very far in being convincing.

Just to be clear, the Law Code is from Jehovah God and it was never supposed to last forever.

Look! The days are coming, declares Jehovah, when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant. It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, although I was their true master, declares Jehovah. - Jeremiah 31:31, 32

[ttruscott]

If they break those he cant help them.

Whatever gives you that idea? All sin is breaking Christ's law as all law is based upon: Be holy as your LORD is holy. Christ's death is for our breaking of the law, our sin. It is the unbelief of the unbeliever that has them condemned already and not under His promise of salvation.

[2timothy316]

If they break those he cant help them.

Whatever gives you that idea? All sin is breaking Christ's law as all law is based upon: Be holy as your LORD is holy. Christ's death is for our breaking of the law, our sin. It is the unbelief of the unbeliever that has them condemned already and not under His promise of salvation.

I'd also like to point out that those that are supposedly holding on the law code are in bigger trouble. The sacrifice laws are no longer followed. The burnt and sin offerings on the temple alter were what cleansed a person of sin under the Mosaic Law. Ex 29:18; Le 6:9.

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 6 by PinSeeker]

You arent required to love your mother or father either but you choose to (i assune)

If you believe you arent obligated to the letter of the law so what? Dont you want to keep the law? Dont you want to make Gid smile? No...you dont have to do anything. God lets you choose. Why do you choose not to keep them? Why is that better? You realize that a man died because your ancestor chose not to keep them, right? And thats okay with you? A man died.
How Christians can celebrate what they did to that guy is horrible. He didnt die for their sins. He died because of them. If Christians loved Jesus theyd quit perpetuating the ugly story of his death. And enough with the half naked images of the guy. Must he be shamed in every generation? Stop it. Cover him up for christs sakes

[Tart]

From the thread Keeping the commandments:

Do you keep the law?

Questions for debate:
Should Christians keep the law?
If so, how much of the laws should we keep?

The Gospel of Matthew has Jesus saying the following:

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

According to Jesus not one jot or one tittle of the law shall pass until heaven and earth shall pass.

I'm pretty sure there are several other passages in the Gospels that have Jesus telling people that they must keep the commandments.

So yes, Christians supposedly must keep all the laws. Every jot and tittle.

I personally see this as being a contradiction in this theology because the theology claims that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb who died to pay the sins for men and offer them undeserved amnesty.

Why would they need undeserved amnesty if they are expected to keep the laws?

So I see this as a self-contradicting theology.

If we could keep the laws why would we need Jesus to be our penal substitute?

Thank you DI... This statement is actually something I agree with you on... It does seem like a contradiction...

There are many instances in the Bible we are told to keep the law. Throughout the Old Testament its a theme (even though, no one did it)... Or Paul said in the New Testament. "6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means!", even though he also said he was the biggest sinner of all...

Jesus was like the only one who questioned this (to some degree i suppose... im not really sure)... Jesus was the only one who went against some laws (like gathering food on the sabbath), and said it is ok. Jesus supposedly revealed to Peter that it is ok to eat unclean food, that "God has made clean"... Jesus was the only person to question the law (when i say "only" i could be wrong)... Jesus taught that the teachers of the law are the biggest hypocrites of all.. Jesus was at odd with them, and was the only person to have been sinless in the Bible (and all of time according to Christian theology)...

It's kind of a trip...

Do we need to uphold the law, ya everyone says yes to this... However, when the law becomes absurd, like gathering food on the sabbath, Jesus through it back in the face of the Pharisees. When the law was used to condemn, like with the adulteress women in John 8, Jesus turned it around on those condemning. When the law was used to exalt people, Jesus exposed hypocrisy.

I believe Christians need to uphold the law, but all will fall short. The law is here to convict us of our sins, it isnt here to exalt us. It is here to expose sin, which kills us. And through Christ we are saved... If you fall short of the law, and you will, good luck trying to redeem yourself (sarcasm.. does "luck" even exist?)... Life comes through Faith in Christ...

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 7 by Elijah John]

EJ:
The answer youll probably get back is that jesus said don't murder, don't steal etc

If God says dont steal they ignore him. But if Jesus says it then theyll listen. And Christians claim to love God. Not much they do.

Those that don't listen to Jesus aren't listening to God.

"Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to him." - Deuteronomy 18:15

"While he was still speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and look! a voice out of the cloud said: This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him. - Matthew 17:5

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 15 by Tart]

So here is my questions for Matthew 5:18.

It says, "Truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one stroke of a letter to pass away from the Law until all things take place."

While some will put emphasis on the (a) part but what about the (b) part, 'until all things take place.' This would denote that the Law will pass away when 'all things take place'. Have 'all things taken place'? What are the 'all things'?

[Tart]

[Replying to post 15 by Tart]

So here is my questions for Matthew 5:18.

It says, "Truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one stroke of a letter to pass away from the Law until all things take place."

While some will put emphasis on the (a) part but what about the (b) part, 'until all things take place.' This would denote that the Law will pass away when 'all things take place'. Have 'all things taken place'? What are the 'all things'?

Im not sure, what do you think about this? What are you saying?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 15 by Tart]

So here is my questions for Matthew 5:18.

It says, "Truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one stroke of a letter to pass away from the Law until all things take place."

While some will put emphasis on the (a) part but what about the (b) part, 'until all things take place.' This would denote that the Law will pass away when 'all things take place'. Have 'all things taken place'? What are the 'all things'?

Im not sure, what do you think about this? What are you saying?

Jeremiah 31:31, 32 says that God would make a 'new covenant' with Israel. Are we still waiting for this to happen, or has it already happened?

What I'm saying is some think the Mosaic Law is supposed to last forever. But the Bible says otherwise.

[Tart]

As far as Moses laws, Noah laws, etc... I am actually a firm believer in the Ten Commandments (which were supposedly written by God)...

I cant think of any commandments it would be ok to break... I try to live by those laws... I think the Ten Commandments may be the only laws, that i might be able to uphold (to the best of my ability)...

Moses law though, says you need to be circumcised to worship the God of Israel, and a bunch of other stuff, that we dont believe... Perhaps it was for Israel at that time? Like perhaps America is our law now, for our society?

Noah's law... Who doesnt eat meat with blood in it? Is a card with no blood transfusion going to do anything for you? Ya i think its gross to get someone elses blood put in you... Does anyone obtain from sexual impurity? I suppose i do.. but lust in itself? Eating food that is strangled? Eating food that is sacrificed to idols? I have my own opinions about this law, within myself. As if to stay "clean", within my own beliefs... I dont want to eat things that are gross (for example). I dont want to do things that are gross. I dont want to act as an idol, or do things that are for "idols", etc...

I want to live faithful, and Noah's laws may help with doing that... Maybe we should just live faithful...


"19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin."