Should Christians keep the law?

Post by **otseng** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:19 am

From the thread Keeping the commandments:

Tart wrote: Do you keep the law?

Questions for debate:
Should Christians keep the law?
If so, how much of the laws should we keep?

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:28 am

[Replying to post 99 by brianbbs67]

The author of that article is, I hate to say, a bit misguided. Those passages in Ezekiel refer to (1) the return of the Jews to their homeland after their captivity in Babylon over 2,000 years ago, and (2) then the "real temple not made with hands" in heaven that is referred to in Hebrews. The descriptions of temple worship are symbolic of true worship restored on Earth, not literal temple worship with sacrifices. We know that this cannot be true---physical temple worship restored---because Jesus provided the final, true sacrifice.

There is a relatively new book out called Pure Worship of Jehovah Restored At Last that might be of interest to you. It takes Ezekiel chapter by chapter and explains what it all means.

Go to www.jw.org and scroll down to "books." Then look through the books until you find this new book. You can read it in its entirety there.

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:08 pm

[Replying to post 100 by onewithhim]

So, it can't mean what it says because your theology rejects that thing?

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:22 am

brianbbs67 wrote: [Replying to post 96 by 2timothy316]

I don't know this site but they list most of the verses pertaining to sacrifices returning.

https://www.compellingtruth.org/millenn ... fices.html

They couldn't answer their own question.

"If Christ paid the sacrifice for our sins, why will animal sacrifice continue in the future?"

They also don't mention that they understand the purpose of the Mosaic Law and the purpose of animal sacrifices. They also cherry pick scriptures out of context to build their dogma. I wouldn't recommend these people as a source of 'compelling truth'.

I will ask you again though, what do you think the purpose was of the Jews sacrificing animals in the first place? The Bible says that is Law was "a shadow of the good things to come." (Heb 10:1) What was the sacrificial Law a shadow of? Your site didn't answer these questions.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:59 pm

brianbbs67 wrote: [Replying to post 100 by onewithhim]

So, it can't mean what it says because your theology rejects that thing?

It doesn't say what your source says it says. They apply it to literal sacrifices during the Millennium, but that is not what it actually says. And your source CAN'T be right because the Bible teaches that Jesus' final sacrifice was the END of sacrifices. For anyone to say that there will be more sacrifices, they are teaching against what God is telling us in the Scriptures. They are MINIMIZING Jesus sacrifice to almost nothing. I would beware of information like that.

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:08 am

[Replying to post 103 by onewithhim]

I meant the Bible verses not the website. I already said, I don't know them.

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:33 pm

[Replying to post 102 by 2timothy316]

They couldn't answer their own question.

"If Christ paid the sacrifice for our sins, why will animal sacrifice continue in the future?"

How about you on this? Can you answer their question?

If you don't think their question is legitimate, how do you explain the verses they claim say there will be animal sacrifices in the future?

[later edit]:

I posted the above before I had read other recent posts.

They have effectively answered my questions!

i am therefore withdrawing them as such, so I no longer expect your answers, unless you want to clarify or add anything.

Too quick off the mark - my bad.

Sojournerofthearth · Post by **Sojournerofthearth** » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:36 pm

[Replying to post 93 by 2timothy316]

So while the young man did seem to love God and His Son, he didn't love them more than his belongings and money.

And, you think that's not covetous? What do you possess that has not been given you? And if it was given to you, why do you boast as if it had been gained, not given? (1Co 4:7) The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof, the world and those who dwell therein (Ps 24:1) Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it. (De 10:4) As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. (1Ti 6:17)

Isn't it in Job where it says, Naked I came into the world and naked I will return, and in Timothy where it says we brought Nothing into the world and we will take nothing out when we leave it.

But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a (should be a, not the) root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. (1 Timothy 6:6-10)

You are correct. It says Christ looked on him in love. He had a fond affection toward the young man, but He also knew the young man didn't get it in his heart. The Law of God isn't just something that you check off as done or not done. It is between your eyes, and in your mouth, and in the palm of your hand... it is as you walk by the way, and as you sit down and as you rise up... it is how we teach our children... that this is the way... and this is NOT the way. It is everything we think, and everything we do. By it we live into eternity because if we do it from the heart, if we understand, as Christ expanded, that even contemplating the sin, we have already broken the law, because our minds are the planting bed of what we will reap, from what we sow.

Soj

Sojournerofthearth · Post by **Sojournerofthearth** » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:50 pm

[Replying to post 102 by 2timothy316]

What was the sacrificial Law a shadow of?

It was a shadow of justification, (among other things) that one might be able to approach God, and yet, the blood of goats and bulls could not justify them, hence, the Priest, after washings, and numerous sacrifices, was able to enter into the Holy of Holies for the people, once a year... but now, Christ, our High Priest, entered once, with his own blood, to make atonement for the people.

I didn't look at the site... so I don't know what it says there. This is what it says in the Bible. That's usually the best place to find answers about what it means.

Sacrifice was instituted after the covenant was made, signed with blood and ratified by the people and God as a covering for sin. It was to teach them that sin came with a cost... and sin brings death. I imagine it is the same reason that the sacrifices will be instituted in the millennium, to etch into their minds, to sink into their hearts, that sin is horrible and comes with a heavy price.

Soj

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:49 am

[Replying to post 107 by Sojournerofthearth]

What scriptures can you show to support this?

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:23 am

Sojournerofthearth wrote: [Replying to post 93 by 2timothy316]

So while the young man did seem to love God and His Son, he didn't love them more than his belongings and money.

And, you think that's not covetous?

No. Covetous is wanting something someone else owns or something you don't own. The rich person wouldn't leave what he already owned. I think you're confusing covet with miserly, selfish or greedy. These do not mean the same as covet. Covetousness is more than simply the desire to have money or certain things, which could have their proper use and purpose. It is the inordinate desire for wealth or possessions or for anothers possessions, according to one dictionary. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/covetous

What do you possess that has not been given you?

Things like my car, house, etc. I was given money that I earned by an employer that gave me a job. What I choose to do with that earned money is my choice.

And if it was given to you, why do you boast as if it had been gained, not given? (1Co 4:7)

Paul was not speaking of physical possessions. He was warning the Corinthian congregation to think they are better than others and not to think that they earned the gift of being heavenly kings because of what they know. Here is the scripture in context.

"Now, brothers, these things I have applied to myself and A-pollos for your good, that through us you may learn the rule: Do not go beyond the things that are written, so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other. For who makes you different from another? Indeed, what do you have that you did not receive? If, in fact, you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it? Are you already satisfied? Are you already rich? Have you begun ruling as kings without us? I really wish that you had begun ruling as kings, so that we also might rule with you as kings." 1 Co 4:6-8

Compare 2 Tim 2:12 and Rev 3:21

The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof, the world and those who dwell therein (Ps 24:1) Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it. (De 10:4) As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. (1Ti 6:17)

All of these are true and so is this one, Psalm 115:16, "The heavens are the heavens of Jehovah, but the earth hath he given to the children of men." So we are allowed to possess things. Of course God is allowed to repossess but still possession of things is ok. The rich man though loved these possessions more than following Jesus. That is selfish in his part, not covetousness.

Isn't it in Job where it says, Naked I came into the world and naked I will return, and in Timothy where it says we brought Nothing into the world and we will take nothing out when we leave it.

These are true. Ecclesiastes chapter 9 says that once we die we possess nothing, not even knowledge or rewards. But possessing nothing is before birth and after death. While alive though we are capable of possessing things.