The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[JehovahsWitness]

We believe ... under Christ, there will be a thousand year peaceful reign during which the earth will be returned to the paradise-like "garden" God intended it to be.

Yeah but the problem with that is, the thousand year reign of Christ (in particular) will occur on the old earth (this earth), according to Rev chapter 20.

What do you mean by "old earth" and why is that problematic ?

"This earth" = "our earth".

If you mean this literal planet earth on which we presently live.... why is that problematic?

[JehovahsWitness]

...he only goes on to describe the Holy City (Jerusalem, which I assume to be the "new earth")

I take this "Holy City" to be synonymous with "heaven"

Where did he redeem them to? If they were originally on earth, where were they after this process?

I don't know.

Are you reading your posts? Can you perhaps see some inconsistency here?

[We_Are_VENOM]

1. Does there mere mention of two things mean they are both must the same ? If you see a table and a chair does that mean that the table is the chair?

No, but if the table and chair are a "set", they can be included together as one and/or viewed as separate.

Just depends on how you look at it.

2. If a writer decides to focus on one thing after mentioning two, does that merge them?

If you read "Sally went into a room where there was a table and a chair. She sat on the chair which was green." Does that mean the table is the chair because the table was only mentioned once at the beginning?

Not at all. But it can go either way. I mean after all, John was in the business of "describing" what he saw and doing so in much detail.

I doubt he found the new heaven so negligible that he wouldn't describe it in the same breath that he described the new earth.

That would be like me telling you..

"I see my sister and my mentor at the Halloween party".

"And her (my sister's) Halloween costume is that of Marvel's character the Black Widow",

And I go on to describe my sister's costume to you, but I make no mention of my mentor's costume.

Why wouldn't I mention my mentor's costume? Well, either because my mentor's costume is unimportant or insignificant to you....OR...maybe I already described it, if my sister and mentor are the same person.

It could go either way, is what I am trying to say.

Do you suggest we divorce ourselves from everything you know about language and any form of logic to properly analyse the bible?

Please, coming from you (and your organization), lets not take it there

And I say so respectfully.

[JehovahsWitness]

Paul mentions at least 3 heavens (2 Corin 12:2).

So ? So what?! Does that therefore make heaven .... earth? If I mention my three dogs does that make them... my cat?

...perhaps the 144k is redeemed and will go to the same place that the thief on the cross went...to paradise.

And where, in your opinion would this be ? In heaven? On earth? Or do you propose somewhere else that is neither on earth or in heaven?





JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[We_Are_VENOM]

Are you reading your posts? Can you perhaps see some inconsistency here?

No, because again; Paul said that our citizenship is in heaven...and also worth repeating, I reject the idea that Paul was talking to a select few of the 144k when he made the statement.

Instead, I believe he was talking to (and about) all believers.

That being said, if I also read in Revelations that a Holy City (Jerusalem) is coming down from heaven (which appears to be the new earth)...and that this is where God will dwell with man and live with them..

I can only logically conclude that this will be HEAVEN (from what Paul said) on EARTH (from what Revelations 21 states).

[JehovahsWitness]

I can only logically conclude that this will be HEAVEN (from what Paul said) on EARTH (from what Revelations 21 states).

And do you believe HEAVEN and EARTH are the same thing? So when Jesus taught us "Our Father who art in Heaven" the word "heaven" refered to this our physical planet earth? And when Jesus said "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the EARTH .... he meant they would inherit HEAVEN ?

In short do you think these words are interchangeable in scripture?








JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE MILLENNIUM, THE EARTHLY PARADISE and ...THE BOOK OF REVELATION

[We_Are_VENOM]

So ? So what?! Does that therefore make heaven .... earth? If I mention my three dogs does that make them... my cat?

See post 1035.

And where, in your opinion would this be ? [/b]In heaven? On earth? Or do you propose somewhere else that is neither on earth or in heaven?

Well, I believe that believers of Christ, when they die, they go to "paradise" which is a temporary place they are being held until the day of judgement...after which they will reap the heavenly reward of...HEAVEN.

Scripture doesn't talk much about paradise, but one can assume that it isn't a terrible place.

I think that paradise is where Enoch and Elijah went (whether they died or not)...I think that is where the Lazarus went (rich man and Lazarus), and according to Jesus, that is where the thief on the cross went.

[JehovahsWitness]

... I believe that believers of Christ, when they die, they go to "paradise" which is a temporary place they are being held until the day of judgement...after which they will reap the heavenly reward of...HEAVEN.

And this heaven where they eventually end up, will it in fact be on this our planet earth? Or are heaven and earth different places?

...he only goes on to describe the Holy City (Jerusalem, which I assume to be the "new earth")

I take this "Holy City" to be synonymous with "heaven"

JW

[We_Are_VENOM]

And do you believe HEAVEN and EARTH are the same thing?

So when Jesus taught us "Our Father who art in Heaven" the word "heaven" refered to this our physical planet earth? And when Jesus said "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the EARTH .... he meant they would inherit HEAVEN ?

In short do you think these words are interchangeable in scripture?

Nooooo.

Heaven (God's current dwelling place) and earth are two very distinct locations as of NOW.

I am speaking on what I view as an integration <---the word I was looking for, of heaven and earth according to what is said in Revelations 20.

If God will dwell with man on earth (the new earth/holy city) as scripture states, then this new dwelling place WILL be heaven, just a heaven-on-EARTH kind of thing (at that point).

Otherwise, what would be the purpose of heaven, if God's residence is now on earth with his people.

Will heaven be God's summer resort or something...like Camp David or something?

I dont think so. No, we (God and his people) will all reside in a heaven-on-earth-paradise.

[We_Are_VENOM]

And this heaven where they eventually end up, will it in fact be on this our planet earth? Or are heaven and earth different places?

Heaven will be integrated with earth; somehow, someway.

I believe this for previously given reasons.

Hey, I am just trying to interpret scripture as best as I can, like everyone else.