The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[JehovahsWitness]

I said previously that God cannot destroy anything that He created as immortal ....

Well that is somewhat circular: now you need to prove from scripture that God has created anyone (human or angel) immortal. Even Jesus existed before being offered immortality; so on what basis do you presume God has created anyone immortal (rather than offer immortality as a reward for faith)?



JW

[myth-one.com]

I said previously that God cannot destroy anything that He created as immortal ....

Well that is somewhat circular: now you need to prove from scripture that God has created anyone (human or angel) immortal.

I'm not sure why I need to prove that anyone was created immortal, but it's so easy, so I will:

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. (Genesis 3:22-23)

So those other that Adam and Eve at the Garden of Eden are immortal.

Speaking of those who shall inherit the Kingdom of God in the world to come, Jesus states:

Neither can they die any more, for they are equal unto the angels... (Luke 20:36)

So angels are immortal.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

So the devil is immortal.

Even Jesus existed before being offered immortality;

I don't understand what you're saying here. When was Jesus "offered" immortality?

The devil offered Jesus power over all the kingdoms of the earth -- but not immortality:

And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whosoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. (Luke 4:5-7)

so on what basis do you presume God has created anyone immortal (rather than offer immortality as a reward for faith)?

The original angels assigned to have power over the earth were created immortal.

So God apparently feels that immortal life is one job requirement for that assignment. Probably due to the universal time scale (13.8 billion years) existing for so long -- but that's just a guess.

Man is being groomed to replace the angels who rebelled and left their earthly assignment.

So we are not so much offered immortality because we are faithful for a very short period, but because we need that characteristic to accomplish the task to which we will be assigned.

[JehovahsWitness]

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: ... (Genesis 3:22-23)

So those other that Adam and Eve at the Garden of Eden are immortal.

The text makes absolutely no mention of immortality.

Indeed in what sense man became like "one of us" is clearly explained , namely {quote} "to know good and evil" end quote. God didn't say "man has become as one of us...immortal" He said ... "the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil". Indeed, the fact that because of their disobedience God took needed measures to prevent Adam and Eve from obtaining everlasting life indicates clearly that life is dependent on faithfulness.



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

... He [Jesus] is an heir to everlasting life under that original covenant.

How can you inherit (be the heir) something you have always possessed? Obviously, you are saying Jesus was given everlasting life (immortality) by his Father so he obviously didn't have it before he received it!

[JehovahsWitness]

I'm not sure why I need to prove that anyone was created immortal...

Because that is what you are claiming. We are saying immortality is given as a reward to those that prove faithful and loyal to God. You are claiming, no immortality is automatic for every spirit irrespective of their moral choices. You are (correct me if I have misunderstood) claiming all spirit beings are created (by virtue of being spirits) immortal.


We are simply asking to prove the above with scripture.



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

The original angels assigned to have power over the earth were created immortal.

So you SAY but since you are not the bible you need to find >>> a scripture << that says any of that.

[myth-one.com]

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: ... (Genesis 3:22-23)

So those other that Adam and Eve at the Garden of Eden are immortal.

The text makes absolutely no mention of immortality.

Indeed in what sense man became like "one of us" is clearly explained , namely {quote} "to know good and evil" end quote. God didn't say "man has become as one of us...immortal" He said ... "the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil". Indeed, the fact that because of their disobedience God took needed measures to prevent Adam and Eve from obtaining everlasting life indicates clearly that life is dependent on faithfulness.

Here are the complete verses:

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. (Genesis 3:22-23)

"Living forever" is equivalent to immortality.

[myth-one.com]

... He [Jesus] is an heir to everlasting life under that original covenant.

How can you inherit (be the heir) of something you have always possessed?

Jesus was a man. No man has everlasting life. The Word always had everlasting life. The Word made flesh was a man.

Obviously, you are saying Jesus was given everlasting life (immortality) by his Father so he obviously didn't have it before he received it!

I do not understand that sentence. Jesus was never given everlasting life. He is an heir to everlasting life. But He will not accept His inheritance, but freely give His inheritance to those of us who believe in Him as our Savior.

He cannot both accept His inheritance and offer it to us as a gift!

Jesus Christ was the only human to ever live a sinless life under the Old Testament Covenant.

Thus He became an heir unto everlasting life under that covenant:

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

[myth-one.com]

I'm not sure why I need to prove that anyone was created immortal...

Because that is what you are claiming. We are saying immortality is given as a reward to those that prove faithful and loyal to God. You are claiming, no immortality is automatic for every spirit irrespective of their moral choices. You are (correct me if I have misunderstood) claiming all spirit beings are created (by virtue of being spirits) immortal.

We are simply asking to prove the above with scripture.

JW

Where do you get this stuff?

I say that whosoever believeth in Jesus shall inherit everlasting life. This will occur at the Second Coming when they are born again of the Spirit as spiritual beings which live forever.

Yes, all spiritual bodied beings are born of the Spirit (God) and are immortal spirits.

And I have proved that on numerous occasions with scripture.

[myth-one.com]

The original angels assigned to have power over the earth were created immortal.

So you SAY but since you are not the bible you need to find >>> a scripture << that says any of that.

I proved that angels are created as immortal beings according to the scriptures.

I suggest to you that the original angels were angels and thus created immortal.

In math: The whole is equal to the sum of its parts.