JESUS IS NOT GOD

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JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1591

Post by Capbook »

myth-one.com wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:54 am [Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1592

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 3:30 am
myth-one.com wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:54 am [Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

John 1:1 is a sloppy translation in most Bibles, who copy the King James Version. Other versions say "the Word was Divine" or the Word was a "god," or, an important powerful individual.

I addressed Hebrews 1:8 in post #1588. If you would say why my explanation is not a good explanation, I would appreciate that.
Last edited by onewithhim on Mon May 13, 2024 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1593

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 4:19 am
onewithhim wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 10:28 am
Capbook wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 3:11 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:26 pm I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?
Jesus did not claim to be God but the Father said unto the Son, Your throne O God.
Let me cite Adam Clark's Commentary;

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

This verse is very properly considered a proof, and indeed a strong one, of the Divinity of Christ.
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
This is most likely not the proper translation. In verse 9 we see that the Son has a God. "You loved righteousness and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your partners."

Verse 8 seems to contradict verse 9. So how can we resolve this problem? The NT was composed in Greek, not English, and often there are no verbs in a sentence. "Is" in verse 8 is often omitted as unnecessary, but it makes all the difference as to what the verse means. In Greek it says, in an Interlinear translation, "the throne of you the god until the age of the age." Where does "is" belong in this sentence? You can see that bias could very well determine where "is" belongs.

"In Hebrews 1:8 we have two nouns, "throne" and "God." The verb "is" might go between these two nouns, as it does in dozens of cases saying "x is y" in the New Testament. If that is so, then the sentence reads: 'Your throne is God, forever and ever..' The NRSV, TEV, and the NWT translators recognize this a possible translation of the verse and include it in a footnote. Which translation is more probable?"

Ho theos is more likely to mean "God," as it does hundreds of times throughout the NT, than "O God." Interestingly, there is no other way to say "God is your throne" than the way Hebrews 1:8 reads. (Also, on the basis of literary content, we can say that Jesus is not called "God" anywhere else in Hebrews.) The Complete Jewish Bible, translated by David H. Stern puts Psalm 45:6,7, from which Hebrews 8 is taken, as this: "Your throne, God"...not "O God." So this translation shows Jewish thought on the meaning of the verse. I think it is appropriate to translate Hebrews 1:8 as Psalm 45 is translated.

It must be concluded that "God is your throne" is the most probable translation, found in the NWT and the footnotes of the NRSV and TEV. Three well-respected scholars of the NT---Westcott, Moffat, and Goodspeed---came to the same conclusion independently. (If this verse were quoted in the NT in reference to anyone else, the translators would have not hesitated to translate it as "God is your throne..." It seems likely that it is only because most translations were made by people who already believe that Jesus is God that the less probable way of translating this verse has been preferred.) When we concede that "God is your throne" is on the table, so to speak, the two verses, verse 8 and verse 9 do not contradict each other and make perfect sense, especially when compared to Psalm 45 of a Jewish Bible.

For further information, see the book Truth in Translation by Jason BeDuhn, associate professor of religious studies at Northern Arizona University, in Flagstaff, pp. 97-101, copyright 2003, University Press of America.
I believe there is no contradiction between Heb 1:8 and 9. "Therefore God, even thy God". Jesus humbled himself and in appearance as a man (NIV) Phil 2:8. Even Jesus calls His Father my God.
Also in verse 8, unlike in Psalms it is the word of the Father that call Jesus Your throne, O God. Translated by many widely used translation; KJV, NIV, NKJV,ASV,NASB,NLT,ESV,NETB and etc.

Much more clear from these translations;

Heb 1:8
8 But he says to the Son,
You're God, and on the throne for good;
your rule makes everything right.
(from THE MESSAGE: The Bible in Contemporary Language © 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson. All rights reserved.)

Heb 1:8
8 But God said this about his Son:
"God, your throne will last forever and ever.
You will rule your kingdom with fairness.
(from New Century Version)

Heb 1:8
8 but of his Son he says, "Your Kingdom, O God, will last forever and ever; its commands are always just and right
(from The Living Bible)

Heb 1:8
8 But of the Son he says, Your seat of power, O God, is for ever and ever; and the rod of your kingdom is a rod of righteousness.
(from Bible in Basic English.

I have given you four translation/version and I believe there are much more.
Can you explain why my explanation in post #1588 is not correct?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1594

Post by myth-one.com »

Capbook wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 3:30 am
myth-one.com wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:54 am [Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)

This speaks to the future when the Word will rule forever over the earth which He created.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1595

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 6:01 pm
Capbook wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 3:30 am
myth-one.com wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:54 am [Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

John 1:1 is a sloppy translation in most Bibles, who copy the King James Version. Other versions say "the Word was Divine" or the Word was a "god," or, an important powerful individual.

I addressed Hebrews 1:8 in post #1588. If you would say why my explanation is not a good explanation, I would appreciate that.


How many Heb 1:8 translation do you have that supports you?
Is Jesus God or not?
I consider this the most important verse as it is the word of the Father unlike other verses.
As for me this verse settles the issue.
We know Jesus in man.
We know there's only one God.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1596

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 2:34 am
onewithhim wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 6:01 pm
Capbook wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 3:30 am
myth-one.com wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:54 am [Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

John 1:1 is a sloppy translation in most Bibles, who copy the King James Version. Other versions say "the Word was Divine" or the Word was a "god," or, an important powerful individual.

I addressed Hebrews 1:8 in post #1588. If you would say why my explanation is not a good explanation, I would appreciate that.


How many Heb 1:8 translation do you have that supports you?
Is Jesus God or not?
I consider this the most important verse as it is the word of the Father unlike other verses.
As for me this verse settles the issue.
We know Jesus in man.
We know there's only one God.

You didn't answer my question. What about my post, explaining how the verse could say "God is your throne forever," as the most probable translation? It all depends where the word "is" is placed. "God is your throne forever" jives with the next verse that says that the Messiah HAS a God.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1597

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 10:33 am
Capbook wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 2:34 am
onewithhim wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 6:01 pm
Capbook wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 3:30 am
myth-one.com wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:54 am [Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

John 1:1 is a sloppy translation in most Bibles, who copy the King James Version. Other versions say "the Word was Divine" or the Word was a "god," or, an important powerful individual.

I addressed Hebrews 1:8 in post #1588. If you would say why my explanation is not a good explanation, I would appreciate that.


How many Heb 1:8 translation do you have that supports you?
Is Jesus God or not?
I consider this the most important verse as it is the word of the Father unlike other verses.
As for me this verse settles the issue.
We know Jesus in man.
We know there's only one God.

You didn't answer my question. What about my post, explaining how the verse could say "God is your throne forever," as the most probable translation? It all depends where the word "is" is placed. "God is your throne forever" jives with the next verse that says that the Messiah HAS a God.


Your explanation I believe was basing to few Bible versions but the most of the widely used versions which I cited says on the contrary; But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God.

And can you counter the following clear translation that the Son is God from the word of the Father;

Heb 1:8
8 But he says to the Son,
You're God, and on the throne for good;
your rule makes everything right.
(from THE MESSAGE: The Bible in Contemporary Language © 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson. All rights reserved.)

Heb 1:8
8 But God said this about his Son:
"God, your throne will last forever and ever.
You will rule your kingdom with fairness.
(from New Century Version)

Heb 1:8
8 but of his Son he says, "Your Kingdom, O God, will last forever and ever; its commands are always just and right
(from The Living Bible)

Heb 1:8
8 But of the Son he says, Your seat of power, O God, is for ever and ever; and the rod of your kingdom is a rod of righteousness.
(from Bible in Basic English.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1598

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 3:16 am
onewithhim wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 10:33 am
Capbook wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 2:34 am
onewithhim wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 6:01 pm
Capbook wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 3:30 am
myth-one.com wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:54 am [Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

John 1:1 is a sloppy translation in most Bibles, who copy the King James Version. Other versions say "the Word was Divine" or the Word was a "god," or, an important powerful individual.

I addressed Hebrews 1:8 in post #1588. If you would say why my explanation is not a good explanation, I would appreciate that.


How many Heb 1:8 translation do you have that supports you?
Is Jesus God or not?
I consider this the most important verse as it is the word of the Father unlike other verses.
As for me this verse settles the issue.
We know Jesus in man.
We know there's only one God.

You didn't answer my question. What about my post, explaining how the verse could say "God is your throne forever," as the most probable translation? It all depends where the word "is" is placed. "God is your throne forever" jives with the next verse that says that the Messiah HAS a God.


Your explanation I believe was basing to few Bible versions but the most of the widely used versions which I cited says on the contrary; But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God.

And can you counter the following clear translation that the Son is God from the word of the Father;

Heb 1:8
8 But he says to the Son,
You're God, and on the throne for good;
your rule makes everything right.
(from THE MESSAGE: The Bible in Contemporary Language © 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson. All rights reserved.)

Heb 1:8
8 But God said this about his Son:
"God, your throne will last forever and ever.
You will rule your kingdom with fairness.
(from New Century Version)

Heb 1:8
8 but of his Son he says, "Your Kingdom, O God, will last forever and ever; its commands are always just and right
(from The Living Bible)

Heb 1:8
8 But of the Son he says, Your seat of power, O God, is for ever and ever; and the rod of your kingdom is a rod of righteousness.
(from Bible in Basic English.

That can't be the most probable rendering of Hebrews 1:8, because in the next verse Jesus HAS a God. Do you see that? Verse nine: "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above they fellows." It is clear that Jesus is not God but actually HAS a God, the Father. Reread my commentary to see why Hebrews 1:8 should read: "God is your throne forever." (Post #1588)

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1599

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 10:28 am
Capbook wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 3:11 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:26 pm I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?
Jesus did not claim to be God but the Father said unto the Son, Your throne O God.
Let me cite Adam Clark's Commentary;

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

This verse is very properly considered a proof, and indeed a strong one, of the Divinity of Christ.
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
This is most likely not the proper translation. In verse 9 we see that the Son has a God. "You loved righteousness and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your partners."

Verse 8 seems to contradict verse 9. So how can we resolve this problem? The NT was composed in Greek, not English, and often there are no verbs in a sentence. "Is" in verse 8 is often omitted as unnecessary, but it makes all the difference as to what the verse means. In Greek it says, in an Interlinear translation, "the throne of you the god until the age of the age." Where does "is" belong in this sentence? You can see that bias could very well determine where "is" belongs.

"In Hebrews 1:8 we have two nouns, "throne" and "God." The verb "is" might go between these two nouns, as it does in dozens of cases saying "x is y" in the New Testament. If that is so, then the sentence reads: 'Your throne is God, forever and ever..' The NRSV, TEV, and the NWT translators recognize this a possible translation of the verse and include it in a footnote. Which translation is more probable?"

Ho theos is more likely to mean "God," as it does hundreds of times throughout the NT, than "O God." Interestingly, there is no other way to say "God is your throne" than the way Hebrews 1:8 reads. (Also, on the basis of literary content, we can say that Jesus is not called "God" anywhere else in Hebrews.) The Complete Jewish Bible, translated by David H. Stern puts Psalm 45:6,7, from which Hebrews 8 is taken, as this: "Your throne, God"...not "O God." So this translation shows Jewish thought on the meaning of the verse. I think it is appropriate to translate Hebrews 1:8 as Psalm 45 is translated.

It must be concluded that "God is your throne" is the most probable translation, found in the NWT and the footnotes of the NRSV and TEV. Three well-respected scholars of the NT---Westcott, Moffat, and Goodspeed---came to the same conclusion independently. (If this verse were quoted in the NT in reference to anyone else, the translators would have not hesitated to translate it as "God is your throne..." It seems likely that it is only because most translations were made by people who already believe that Jesus is God that the less probable way of translating this verse has been preferred.) When we concede that "God is your throne" is on the table, so to speak, the two verses, verse 8 and verse 9 do not contradict each other and make perfect sense, especially when compared to Psalm 45 of a Jewish Bible.

For further information, see the book Truth in Translation by Jason BeDuhn, associate professor of religious studies at Northern Arizona University, in Flagstaff, pp. 97-101, copyright 2003, University Press of America.
You quote versions and scholars that I believe accept Arians view.
Do you agree to settle this Heb 1:8, as what majority Bible version understand it. Not just a few?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1600

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 3:59 am
onewithhim wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 10:28 am
Capbook wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 3:11 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:26 pm I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?
Jesus did not claim to be God but the Father said unto the Son, Your throne O God.
Let me cite Adam Clark's Commentary;

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

This verse is very properly considered a proof, and indeed a strong one, of the Divinity of Christ.
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
This is most likely not the proper translation. In verse 9 we see that the Son has a God. "You loved righteousness and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your partners."

Verse 8 seems to contradict verse 9. So how can we resolve this problem? The NT was composed in Greek, not English, and often there are no verbs in a sentence. "Is" in verse 8 is often omitted as unnecessary, but it makes all the difference as to what the verse means. In Greek it says, in an Interlinear translation, "the throne of you the god until the age of the age." Where does "is" belong in this sentence? You can see that bias could very well determine where "is" belongs.

"In Hebrews 1:8 we have two nouns, "throne" and "God." The verb "is" might go between these two nouns, as it does in dozens of cases saying "x is y" in the New Testament. If that is so, then the sentence reads: 'Your throne is God, forever and ever..' The NRSV, TEV, and the NWT translators recognize this a possible translation of the verse and include it in a footnote. Which translation is more probable?"

Ho theos is more likely to mean "God," as it does hundreds of times throughout the NT, than "O God." Interestingly, there is no other way to say "God is your throne" than the way Hebrews 1:8 reads. (Also, on the basis of literary content, we can say that Jesus is not called "God" anywhere else in Hebrews.) The Complete Jewish Bible, translated by David H. Stern puts Psalm 45:6,7, from which Hebrews 8 is taken, as this: "Your throne, God"...not "O God." So this translation shows Jewish thought on the meaning of the verse. I think it is appropriate to translate Hebrews 1:8 as Psalm 45 is translated.

It must be concluded that "God is your throne" is the most probable translation, found in the NWT and the footnotes of the NRSV and TEV. Three well-respected scholars of the NT---Westcott, Moffat, and Goodspeed---came to the same conclusion independently. (If this verse were quoted in the NT in reference to anyone else, the translators would have not hesitated to translate it as "God is your throne..." It seems likely that it is only because most translations were made by people who already believe that Jesus is God that the less probable way of translating this verse has been preferred.) When we concede that "God is your throne" is on the table, so to speak, the two verses, verse 8 and verse 9 do not contradict each other and make perfect sense, especially when compared to Psalm 45 of a Jewish Bible.

For further information, see the book Truth in Translation by Jason BeDuhn, associate professor of religious studies at Northern Arizona University, in Flagstaff, pp. 97-101, copyright 2003, University Press of America.
You quote versions and scholars that I believe accept Arians view.
Do you agree to settle this Heb 1:8, as what majority Bible version understand it. Not just a few?
No, because of what I posted in the previous post #1600.

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