Is Jesus mediator only for the “anointed class” of JW’s?

[MissKate13]

If true, then WHO mediates for the rest of the Jehovah’s Witnesses?

[Diogenes]

This entire discussion about the 144,000 and the JW's, and the special status of whomever, seems to me the exact opposite of what Jesus taught. It reminds me of the disciples' quarrels about who was greatest among them. In any event, this discussion is a perfect example of the kind of thing that drives people FAR from the church. It is hard to think of a discussion that is more divisive and contrary to the spirit of Jesus trying to get his lambs into the fold. viewtopic.php?p=1120072#p1120072

[MissKate13]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #158]

The kingdom is here! Jesus is King. Christians are His subjects. They do what He says. The church is His realm.

At the second coming of Jesus, He will be taking His kingdom, the church, back to heaven with Him.

If you’re not in His kingdom, you’ll be cast into the Lake of Fire where you will spend eternity.

Throw Watchtower literature in the trash. Read the Bible cover to cover as often as time allows. Discover the real truth. Obey the gospel of Jesus and be saved.

[MissKate13]

This entire discussion about the 144,000 and the JW's, and the special status of whomever, seems to me the exact opposite of what Jesus taught. It reminds me of the disciples' quarrels about who was greatest among them. In any event, this discussion is a perfect example of the kind of thing that drives people FAR from the church. It is hard to think of a discussion that is more divisive and contrary to the spirit of Jesus trying to get his lambs into the fold. viewtopic.php?p=1120072#p1120072

There are not two classes of Christians taught in Scripture where one rules over the other. That is false teaching. Watchtower is all about power and control.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to Eloi in post #151]
Try reading the New Testament where plain literal language tells us the kingdom is present NOW. Jesus is reigning!


The kingdom is His church. It is a spiritual entity. Those who belong to His church worship in Spirit and truth. If you’re not in His kingdom, where all spiritual blessings are found, then you are existing in Satan’s worldly kingdom. Good luck with that.

[MissKate13]

Peace to you,

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #143]

The point you, all JW’s and Tam are missing is that the kingdom is here now, and true followers of Christ are ruling with Him.

I am not sure what more I can add to what I said in our previous conversation (our previous discussion did not continue). So I am just going to link to that discussion, and if you feel like continuing it, then we can.

viewtopic.php?p=1101043#p1101043
viewtopic.php?p=1101280#p1101280
viewtopic.php?p=1101556#p1101556


Peace again to you!

You have been shown the passages which teach that the kingdom is present NOW. Do what you will with them.

If you truly want to know the truth, do a word study of the “kingdom” in the NEW TESTAMENT. Use a highlighter and mark off every single time the word “kingdom” is used. Start with the gospels and work your way through Revelation. That is how I came to know the truth. No commentaries. No one to string verses together to lead me into their way of thinking. Just me, the Scriptures, the Holy Spirit, and lots of prayer for understanding.

The OT and the gospels speak of the kingdom in the future. But beginning with Acts, on the day of Pentecost, the kingdom is spoken of as PRESENT because that is when Jesus established it. The kingdom and the church are one in the same entity. Jesus is head over His church. He is King over His Kingdom. Jesus gave Peter the keys to His kingdom. The keys are His gospel. It is through obedience to the gospel we enter the kingdom/church of Christ.

Someday when Jesus comes, He will take His kingdom (His church) back to heaven with Him where they will dwell with Him forever.

[MissKate13]

There are not two destinations for christians or two classes of Christians with one class ruling over the other according to the Scriptures.

Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Rev 5:9-10 And they *sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. (10) "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

Rev 2:25-26 Only hold on to what you have until I come. (26) To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations

Mat 25:20-21 The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.' (21) His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

1Co 6:1-3 Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints? (2) Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? (3) Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?

2Ti 2:12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

Luk 22:28-30 "You are those who have stood by Me in My trials; (29) and just as My Father has granted Me a kingdom, I grant you (30) that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Gal 4:7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

1Pe 1:3-4 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (4) and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you,

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #143]

The point you, all JW’s and Tam are missing is that the kingdom is here now, and true followers of Christ are ruling with Him.

I am not sure what more I can add to what I said in our previous conversation (our previous discussion did not continue). So I am just going to link to that discussion, and if you feel like continuing it, then we can.

viewtopic.php?p=1101043#p1101043
viewtopic.php?p=1101280#p1101280
viewtopic.php?p=1101556#p1101556


Peace again to you!

You have been shown the passages which teach that the kingdom is present NOW. Do what you will with them.

Did you look at those links? I don't know how to continue the conversation we were having about the Kingdom (both now and future) unless you address the issues brought out in those posts.

If you truly want to know the truth, do a word study of the “kingdom” in the NEW TESTAMENT. Use a highlighter and mark off every single time the word “kingdom” is used. Start with the gospels and work your way through Revelation. That is how I came to know the truth. No commentaries. No one to string verses together to lead me into their way of thinking. Just me, the Scriptures, the Holy Spirit, and lots of prayer for understanding.

If one wants to know the truth, one must turn to and know Christ. He is Himself the Truth and the One who has promised to lead us into all truth.

Not the bible. Christ, Himself.

Many many people study and search the bible, coming to different, even conflicting, conclusions and interpretations.

The OT and the gospels speak of the kingdom in the future. But beginning with Acts, on the day of Pentecost, the kingdom is spoken of as PRESENT because that is when Jesus established it.

Both are spoken about because both are accurate. As discussed in the previous conversation on the Kingdom thread, the Kingdom is within us (here and now), and has come (within us - if Christ and God are in us by means of God's holy spirit being in us). But Christ will also return and establish His Kingdom fully upon the earth. People are even invited into the Kingdom for the first time after Christ returns (see introduction at the sheep and goats account, which takes place when Christ returns.) How can that be referring to Christians?



I did look at Acts for the word Kingdom as you suggested, however, and this is the first verse that applied:

Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”



**

I did not see the word Kingdom being used in the account of the day of Pentecost.

The kingdom and the church are one in the same entity.

Similar, but I am not sure that is entirely the case.

Paul says things like 'you are the Church, the Body of Christ'; but I do not recall him saying something like, 'you are the kingdom.'

Jesus is head over His church.

Indeed.

He is King over His Kingdom.

Indeed.

Jesus gave Peter the keys to His kingdom. The keys are His gospel. It is through obedience to the gospel we enter the kingdom/church of Christ.

The key is more about forgiveness (whatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven; if you forgive anyone their sins, they are forgiven), and these keys were not just given to Peter.

(We enter into the Church, which is the Body of Christ, if He calls and chooses us, anointing us with holy spirit.)

Someday when Jesus comes, He will take His kingdom (His church) back to heaven with Him where they will dwell with Him forever.

When Christ returns, He establishes His Kingdom upon the earth, inviting some people of the nations INTO that Kingdom at that time (see Matt 25, sheep and goats). Christians - who reign with Him for a thousand years (that time period has not yet started, see other thread for questions you did not yet respond to on that matter) - reign upon the earth. (Rev 5:10, 20:4-6)

Upon His return, Christ does indeed gather His Bride (His Church) up and into the spiritual realm for the marriage (and we are changed in a twinkling, 1Corinth 15:52)... but the Bride - New Jerusalem - the Church, then comes down out of heaven from God and reigns upon the earth for a thousand years (Rev 3:12; 21:2; 5:10).



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[MissKate13]

[Replying to tam in post #167]

I don’t do links.

Look up the word “kingdom” in the New Testament original Greek. It means sovereignty, royal power. It refers to the kingly rule, reign and the governance of Jesus Christ.

John the Baptist said, “Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) Jesus preached, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 4:17; 10:7). “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand.” (Mark 1:15)
Jesus said the kingdom would arrive with power (Mark 9:1)

At hand does not infer 2000+ years later.

Matthew 16:18-19 shows the kingdom and the church to be synonymous. “And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

The kingdom and the church refer to the same group of people, so in that sense the church is an aspect of the kingdom. Christians are subjects of the kingdom and members of His body.

The kingdom refers to the relationship Christians have with God. It’s the rule or dominion of Christ in one’s heart. The church refers to the relationship Christians have with one another. These are two different terms, yet they refer to the same group of people.

The terms kingdom and church are applied to the same group of people but define different aspects of the body. Kingdom refers to the “governing aspect” of God’s people and church refers to them as a “called out body” of people separate from the world.

Though the kingdom is present today, it is still appropriate to pray “thy kingdom come.” We are praying for God’s reign to come into the hearts of men and women.

The kingdom and the church were established on Pentecost AD 33.

Mark 9:1
1Then Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God arrive with power.”

Jesus told His disciples to remain in Jerusalem until they were clothed with power from on high (Luke 24:49)

Acts 1:6
Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

Acts 1:8
Jesus tells His disciples “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Acts 2:1-4
The kingdom came with power on Pentecost.

Acts 2:41 Three-thousand were baptized and added to the church on Pentecost.

[2timothy316]

This entire discussion about the 144,000 and the JW's, and the special status of whomever, seems to me the exact opposite of what Jesus taught. It reminds me of the disciples' quarrels about who was greatest among them. In any event, this discussion is a perfect example of the kind of thing that drives people FAR from the church. It is hard to think of a discussion that is more divisive and contrary to the spirit of Jesus trying to get his lambs into the fold. viewtopic.php?p=1120072#p1120072

There are not two classes of Christians taught in Scripture where one rules over the other. That is false teaching. Watchtower is all about power and control.

I fail to see what gives people that print a magazine control and power? They don't have anyway to force me or any JW to do anything. So Power and control over what?

[MissKate13]

This entire discussion about the 144,000 and the JW's, and the special status of whomever, seems to me the exact opposite of what Jesus taught. It reminds me of the disciples' quarrels about who was greatest among them. In any event, this discussion is a perfect example of the kind of thing that drives people FAR from the church. It is hard to think of a discussion that is more divisive and contrary to the spirit of Jesus trying to get his lambs into the fold. viewtopic.php?p=1120072#p1120072

There are not two classes of Christians taught in Scripture where one rules over the other. That is false teaching. Watchtower is all about power and control.

I fail to see what this gives them? They don't have anyway to force me or any JW to do anything. So Power and control over what?

Power and control over people.

True. They can’t force anyone to do anything. But they can control people psychologically.

Do you remember Jonestown, and how 400 people drank the kool aid? They knew it would kill them, but they drank it anyway. Mind control is a powerful force, and we are all subject to it to a certain degree.

Think about how the media controls the masses in our country. I don’t listen to any news because of it. If all you hear is one side, you begin to believe it.