You MUST be born again

[Checkpoint]

You MUST be born again".

That is a very emphatic statement, made to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher.

Here now is the whole passage, from John 3:

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

An interesting exchange, and an interesting subject.

How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?

Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?

Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?

Why is it so important?

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

How would you explain verse 8?

[PinSeeker]

The spiritual birth produces the spiritual body.

This is very true, but the spiritual birth does not "un-produce" the physical body.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

[myth-one.com]

The spiritual birth produces the spiritual body.

This is very true, but the spiritual birth does not "un-produce" the physical body.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

Physical bodies die!

[PinSeeker]

Physical bodies die!

Agreed. But that's a non sequitur.

Grace and peace to you.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #20]

every human will choose whether or not they will be born again of the Spirit into the Kingdom of God!

If a human accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior at anytime while that human is living, that human becomes an heir to eternal life.

The spiritual birth produces the spiritual body.

Yes, it is all so well put in 1 Peter 1:

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,
5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

[myth-one.com]

The spiritual birth produces the spiritual body.

This is very true, but the spiritual birth does not "un-produce" the physical body.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

So humans born again of the Spirit retain their physical bodies?

That is, they have two bodies somehow bonded together -- a natural physical body and a spiritual body?

Is that your claim?

[PinSeeker]

So humans born again of the Spirit retain their physical bodies?

Well, it is possible -- although Nicodemus can't comprehend it, and neither can you, apparently -- for one to be born again in this life. Yes, in this life, we who are Christians were in our physical bodies before we were born again, and are still in our physical bodies after we were born again. When we die, we will be without our physical bodies for a time, but with Jesus in paradise, as was the thief crucified on His right.

That is, they have two bodies somehow bonded together -- a natural physical body and a spiritual body?

LOL! Well, in a sense, yes. Two natures, myth-one. Two natures. A physical nature and a spiritual nature, which was dead before. Paul calls these two natures "the old man" and "the new man," and implores us to put off the old man and put on the new. This is the struggle by the new spiritual nature against the sinful ("physical") nature that is still with us.

Grace and peace to you.

[Checkpoint]

The spiritual birth produces the spiritual body.

This is very true, but the spiritual birth does not "un-produce" the physical body.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

So humans born again of the Spirit retain their physical bodies?

That is, they have two bodies somehow bonded together -- a natural physical body and a spiritual body?

Is that your claim?

Whatever anyone claims, or is thought to claim, the truth is clear.

One body at a time, thank you.

All humans are born with a natural or soulish body, which we use as our tent in this short life.

Within our tent we have a spirit, which Scripture tells us is the candle or lamp of the Lord; Proverbs 20:27.

Some humans in this present life choose to become born again, and God lights our lamp.
Our part is to keep our lamp burning brightly to the end of our time here. Matthew 25:1-13.

If we do this Jesus will welcome us when he returns and we will then have our new spiritual body, our heavenly house.

This is what Paul explains in 2 Corinthians 5:

1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling,
3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.
4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

5 Now the One who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

[Revelations won]

Pin Seeker said it very well!

myth-one.com wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:05 pm
Physical bodies die!
Agreed. But that's a non sequitur.

I guess myth-one.com forgot that physical bodies that died are resurrected to enjoy an immortal state.

Kind regards,
RW

[myth-one.com]

Pin Seeker said it very well!

myth-one.com wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:05 pm
Physical bodies die!
Agreed. But that's a non sequitur.

I guess myth-one.com forgot that physical bodies that died are resurrected to enjoy an immortal state.

Kind regards,
RW

Only some will be resurrected to everlasting life:

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life... (Daniel 12:2)

That "some" will be the "few":

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

The some or few that are resurrected to everlasting life will be the believers in Christ:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Dead nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans once again, and may face a second and permanent death.

There is no physical body which has everlasting life!

A characteristic of physical bodies is that they die.

[Checkpoint]

Pin Seeker said it very well!

myth-one.com wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:05 pm
Physical bodies die!
Agreed. But that's a non sequitur.

I guess myth-one.com forgot that physical bodies that died are resurrected to enjoy an immortal state.

Kind regards,
RW

Only some will be resurrected to everlasting life:

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life... (Daniel 12:2)

That "some" will be the "few":

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

The some or few that are resurrected to everlasting life will be the believers in Christ:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Dead nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans once again, and may face a second and permanent death.

There is no physical body which has everlasting life!

A characteristic of physical bodies is that they die.

Yes, they do die.

Concerning the first death, does that mean they no longer exist?

I ask the same question concerning the Second Death.

Death is what anyone who has died is in.

These words(death, die) indicate and spell out cessation of life, the very opposite of extension of life(or of existence), in any form.

Death is the absence of life. It precludes any awareness or feelings, and any consciousness of any kind.