Did God restore Israel in 1948?

[dad1]

Israel must be back in the land in the end time according to the bible. Some people suggest that God brought them back, and that they are now fulfilling prophesy such as the desert blooming like a rose etc. Can anyone support that idea? Several denominations do make such claims.

In the end, after the remnant repents and Jesus returns, is when God restores believing Israel to the land. Not, as far as I can tell, in 1948. So, there are good bible teaching preachers that seem to think otherwise (Jack Hibbs, Behold Israel, Jan Markell, James Kaddis, Bret meador, etc etc). The thread is for someone to support their claims. In other threads I have not seen this done yet.

[dad1]

The "house of Judah", the Jews have already been gathered onto the land of Jacob. Zech 12:6 describes the surrounding nations (Arabs) being burned like a flaming torch among sheaves, such as in the 6-day Israel war.

No. Clearly the time of this prophesy is the end time. Zechariah 12:4
In that day, saith the Lord , I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
That was not the six day war or 1948 etc.

The 10 northern tribes, called Israel, and referred to as Ephraim (Hosea 5 & Ez 37:16) as the name of Israel was passed down to Ephram from Jacob through Joseph. Ephraim/Israel, the northern lost 10 tribes/sheep (Mt 10:6)

No tribe is lost. God knows where all of them are.

, are now "scattered" (Ez 36:19)

There are no lost tribes so what is it you claim is scattered? Much of the Jews already brought themselves to the land. Of course there are still Jews scattered who maybe will not return to that land as well. I see no reason to call them lost tribes? That is not bible.

yet will be gathered (Ez 36:24) from the nations.

That clearly is the end also

Ezekiel 36:23
And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord , saith the Lord God , when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. They are not sanctified now.

Ephraim, whose name was passed down from Jacob through Joseph, and Judah will be reunited (Ez 37:16-21).

Again that is after they are saved and therefore in His hand.


Ezekiel 37:19
Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

As for radiation poisoning, Russia's newest large weapon is a super EMP bomb which only destroys living cells and not inanimate objects. As the residents of Israel are required to have bomb shelters, they are basically protected from radiation poisoning, as it will be limited to nuclear rays, which cannot penetrate 3 feet of soil with any affect.

Well they will be fleeing out into the wilderness actually, the believers. Your scenario at best should be qualified with perhaps or maybe, and even then it not a strong opinion.

Ephraim/Israel and Judah do not keep the ordinances because they have not been given a new heart of flesh (Ez 36:26-27) & (Jeremiah 31:31-33).

Israel does not and did not since 1948. So? They will keep them after they are saved (a new heart), that was NOT history or 1948.

As for Ez 36:10, that refers to "all the house of Israel", which would allude to the whole 12 tribes of Israel, which includes Judah and Ephraim/Israel, who at this time have not been reunited, nor have the "nations"/Gentiles been destroyed (Jeremiah 30:11), and Jacob/Israel been "chastened" "justly".

Naturally after they get saved He will gather them all to the land, He knows where they are. They are saved after they are chastened in the tribulation. Nothing about any verse you cite has anything at all remotely to do with 1948. You do realize that?

[1213]

...

Mark 13: 30-31
“30 I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living. 31 The whole world, earth and sky, will be destroyed, but my words will last forever.

Interesting, translations that I have says:
"Most assuredly I say to you, this generation [The word translated “generation” (genea) could also be translated “race,” “family,” or “people.”] will not pass away until all these things happen. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away."

What translation are you using?

The ERV, although other bibles give just about the same translation of Mark 13:10 without ever mentioning "generations." Bibles including, but not limited to:
...

Ok, thank you! I think it is wrong translation, because Jesus says he doesn't know the day.

But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matt. 24:36

Jesus said he doesn't know the day, so he can't be wrong about it either.

[2ndpillar2]

The "house of Judah", the Jews have already been gathered onto the land of Jacob. Zech 12:6 describes the surrounding nations (Arabs) being burned like a flaming torch among sheaves, such as in the 6-day Israel war.

No. Clearly the time of this prophesy is the end time. Zechariah 12:4
In that day, saith the Lord , I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
That was not the six day war or 1948 etc.

The 10 northern tribes, called Israel, and referred to as Ephraim (Hosea 5 & Ez 37:16) as the name of Israel was passed down to Ephram from Jacob through Joseph. Ephraim/Israel, the northern lost 10 tribes/sheep (Mt 10:6)

No tribe is lost. God knows where all of them are.

, are now "scattered" (Ez 36:19)

There are no lost tribes so what is it you claim is scattered? Much of the Jews already brought themselves to the land. Of course there are still Jews scattered who maybe will not return to that land as well. I see no reason to call them lost tribes? That is not bible.

yet will be gathered (Ez 36:24) from the nations.

That clearly is the end also

Ezekiel 36:23
And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord , saith the Lord God , when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. They are not sanctified now.

Ephraim, whose name was passed down from Jacob through Joseph, and Judah will be reunited (Ez 37:16-21).

Again that is after they are saved and therefore in His hand.


Ezekiel 37:19
Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

As for radiation poisoning, Russia's newest large weapon is a super EMP bomb which only destroys living cells and not inanimate objects. As the residents of Israel are required to have bomb shelters, they are basically protected from radiation poisoning, as it will be limited to nuclear rays, which cannot penetrate 3 feet of soil with any affect.

Well they will be fleeing out into the wilderness actually, the believers. Your scenario at best should be qualified with perhaps or maybe, and even then it not a strong opinion.

Ephraim/Israel and Judah do not keep the ordinances because they have not been given a new heart of flesh (Ez 36:26-27) & (Jeremiah 31:31-33).

Israel does not and did not since 1948. So? They will keep them after they are saved (a new heart), that was NOT history or 1948.

As for Ez 36:10, that refers to "all the house of Israel", which would allude to the whole 12 tribes of Israel, which includes Judah and Ephraim/Israel, who at this time have not been reunited, nor have the "nations"/Gentiles been destroyed (Jeremiah 30:11), and Jacob/Israel been "chastened" "justly".

Naturally after they get saved He will gather them all to the land, He knows where they are. They are saved after they are chastened in the tribulation. Nothing about any verse you cite has anything at all remotely to do with 1948. You do realize that?

We are in the "end times", "end of the age" (Daniel 12:7), whereas the shattering of the power of the "holy people"/Jews, is finished, for the "tares"/lawless, per Mt 13:25-30, are no longer under God's protection, and the angels will soon gather them and toss them into the "furnace of fire" (Mt 13:25-30 & 49-50). The false prophets (Mt 7:13-15), who "commit lawlessness" (Paul), and are "stumbling blocks" (Peter (Mt 16:23) (Mt 13:41) are now open to being unveiled and railed against (Mt 7:23). As for Zech 12:2, first Jerusalem has to be set up as a home of Judah (Jews) before the "LORD" will strike every "horse, and his rider with madness", which is what happened at the valley of tears/death, whereas in 1967, a squad of Israeli high horse powered tanks took on the 1400 Russian built Syrian tanks, held them up for 24 hours, when they were then destroyed. You are confusing the "house of Israel", which is Ephraim, with the state of Israel, which is in the home area of Judea, the home of Judah. As stated, by Yeshua, he sent his fishers of men to find the lost sheep/tribe of the house of Israel (Mt 10:6). The term "saved" is appropriated from Joel 2:31-32, whereas those in "Jerusalem", which are the Jews (Judah) and those on Mount Zion (those that keep the commandments) will "escape"/"survive". To "escape" destruction, Yeshua urged those in "Judea" to flee to the "mountains" (Mt 24:16). Those of the nations/Gentiles who survive, will come to Jerusalem every year to worship the king on the feast of booths, and be cursed if they do not show up (Zech 14:16-18). The "nations"/Gentiles will be ruled by a "rod of iron" (Rev 19:15). A good number of Judah are now in Judea, the land given to Jacob. Ephraim remains scattered among the nations, and the "hunters", as were the "fishers of men", will be sent to track them down (Jeremiah 16:16). The "hunters" have not been sent out at this time, and Ephraim remains scattered among the nations. Neither is Judah nor Ephraim "sanctified" now and have a "new heart", because they remain apart, and Ephraim remains "scattered" "among the nations". Per Joel 2:31-32, one either "survives" or "escapes" death, which is sheol, the grave, not some fictious forever hell. The lake of fire is forever, the second death is immediate and final. Only the false prophet, the beast, and the devil seem to live through a "forever and ever" lake of fire (Rev 20:10). That is the crux of Joel 2:31-32.

[dad1]

We are in the "end times", "end of the age" (Daniel 12:7), whereas the shattering of the power of the "holy people"/Jews, is finished,

Scattering power? Where did that term come from, not the bible. As for Dan 12:7 that tells us of the three and a half years in the very end. Nothing to do with 1948, or 'scattering power'

for the "tares"/lawless, per Mt 13:25-30, are no longer under God's protection, and the angels will soon gather them and toss them into the "furnace of fire" (Mt 13:25-30 & 49-50).

One day, of course. That was not now or 1948. Try to focus.

The false prophets (Mt 7:13-15), who "commit lawlessness" (Paul), and are "stumbling blocks" (Peter (Mt 16:23) (Mt 13:41) are now open to being unveiled and railed against (Mt 7:23).

Mainly, false prophets lie and prophesy false things. We always have a heaping share of them.

As for Zech 12:2, first Jerusalem has to be set up as a home of Judah (Jews) before the "LORD" will strike every "horse, and his rider with madness", which is what happened at the valley of tears/death, whereas in 1967, a squad of Israeli high horse powered tanks took on the 1400 Russian built Syrian tanks, held them up for 24 hours, when they were then destroyed.

Zechariah 12:11
In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

There was no mourning in 1967. Sorry. They did not get saved. That was not the day.

There was no fountain opened in that 1967

Zechariah 13:1
In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Nor did this happen

Zechariah 13:2
And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

etc etc

You are confusing the "house of Israel", which is Ephraim, with the state of Israel, which is in the home area of Judea, the home of Judah. As stated, by Yeshua, he sent his fishers of men to find the lost sheep/tribe of the house of Israel (Mt 10:6). The term "saved" is appropriated from Joel 2:31-32, whereas those in "Jerusalem", which are the Jews (Judah)

I suspect there are all sorts living in Jerusalem today. But that does not change anything. The events will happen at the appointed time and they did not happen yet.

Not 1948, not 1967.

[2ndpillar2]

We are in the "end times", "end of the age" (Daniel 12:7), whereas the shattering of the power of the "holy people"/Jews, is finished,

Scattering power? Where did that term come from, not the bible. As for Dan 12:7 that tells us of the three and a half years in the very end. Nothing to do with 1948, or 'scattering power'

for the "tares"/lawless, per Mt 13:25-30, are no longer under God's protection, and the angels will soon gather them and toss them into the "furnace of fire" (Mt 13:25-30 & 49-50).

One day, of course. That was not now or 1948. Try to focus.

The false prophets (Mt 7:13-15), who "commit lawlessness" (Paul), and are "stumbling blocks" (Peter (Mt 16:23) (Mt 13:41) are now open to being unveiled and railed against (Mt 7:23).

Mainly, false prophets lie and prophesy false things. We always have a heaping share of them.

As for Zech 12:2, first Jerusalem has to be set up as a home of Judah (Jews) before the "LORD" will strike every "horse, and his rider with madness", which is what happened at the valley of tears/death, whereas in 1967, a squad of Israeli high horse powered tanks took on the 1400 Russian built Syrian tanks, held them up for 24 hours, when they were then destroyed.

Zechariah 12:11
In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

There was no mourning in 1967. Sorry. They did not get saved. That was not the day.

There was no fountain opened in that 1967

Zechariah 13:1
In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Nor did this happen

Zechariah 13:2
And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

etc etc

You are confusing the "house of Israel", which is Ephraim, with the state of Israel, which is in the home area of Judea, the home of Judah. As stated, by Yeshua, he sent his fishers of men to find the lost sheep/tribe of the house of Israel (Mt 10:6). The term "saved" is appropriated from Joel 2:31-32, whereas those in "Jerusalem", which are the Jews (Judah)

I suspect there are all sorts living in Jerusalem today. But that does not change anything. The events will happen at the appointed time and they did not happen yet.

Not 1948, not 1967.

1948 is not "in that day", the day of the "LORD", for the Jews were, and are not yet fully established in Jerusalem. It took until the 2020s before the U.S. established a consulate in Jerusalem. 1948 was a progression of 1917 when the British made the Balfour Declaration whereas the Zionist (Jews) were permitted into Judea. 1967 is just a furtherance of what is going on, as well as 1973 Israeli war. "In that day" would refer to Isaiah 22:15-25 whereas the heir of Peter, the pope, the guy with the supposed key of David, placed over the "royal household", would "fall" and all those hanging onto him (the Gentile church) would be "cut off". That hasn't happened. Revelation 13 is not Revelation 12. Revelation 13:7 is referred to in Mt 26:31 by Yeshua with respect to Peter denying Christ, and that the sheep, the lost sheep of Matthew 10:6, the "lost sheep of Israel", would pass through the fire, and two parts (2/3) would be "cut off" (Ez 13:8) and the rest "refined", and that hasn't happened as of yet. As for Zech 13:1, the fountain for sin located in Jerusalem (Rev 22L27) will be shut off from the "wicked"/sinners. As the Gentile church proclaims they are sinners, well, it is doubtful they will enter into the new Jerusalem, with its river of life, which actually doesn't exist until after the "devil"/"dragon" is bound (Rev 20:1-2) and that is after the nations fall upon Jerusalem (Zech 14:1-2) and are destroyed by the "LORD" (Zech 12:6) with the help of Judah. As for Zech 12:11, that happens after "I will set up to destroy all that nations which come up against Jerusalem". That is not finished. Jerusalem is only now getting set up as a powerful Jewish nation, with Iran (Persia), its neighbor, looking to come up against the state of Israel, with Russia, China, Pakistan, and North Korea as their partners, all apparently having or getting nuclear weapons. According to Daniel 2, all the kingdoms of Daniel 2 will be crushed at the same time, which would include Persia (Iran), Greece, Rome, and the kingdom of clay, which would be Isaac's first son, Essau, who was nicknamed "red", as in red clay, as in pot of clay, the Muslims.

[Miles]

...

Mark 13: 30-31
“30 I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living. 31 The whole world, earth and sky, will be destroyed, but my words will last forever.

Interesting, translations that I have says:
"Most assuredly I say to you, this generation [The word translated “generation” (genea) could also be translated “race,” “family,” or “people.”] will not pass away until all these things happen. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away."

What translation are you using?

The ERV, although other bibles give just about the same translation of Mark 13:10 without ever mentioning "generations." Bibles including, but not limited to:
...

Ok, thank you! I think it is wrong translation, because Jesus says he doesn't know the day.

But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matt. 24:36

Jesus said he doesn't know the day, so he can't be wrong about it either.

But even if the exact day is unknown it doesn't preclude the "fact" that "all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living." Even if I don't know when your birthday is, doesn't mean it won't occur sometime within the next 365 days.

.

[2ndpillar2]

...

Mark 13: 30-31
“30 I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living. 31 The whole world, earth and sky, will be destroyed, but my words will last forever.

Interesting, translations that I have says:
"Most assuredly I say to you, this generation [The word translated “generation” (genea) could also be translated “race,” “family,” or “people.”] will not pass away until all these things happen. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away."

What translation are you using?

The ERV, although other bibles give just about the same translation of Mark 13:10 without ever mentioning "generations." Bibles including, but not limited to:
...

Ok, thank you! I think it is wrong translation, because Jesus says he doesn't know the day.

But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matt. 24:36

Jesus said he doesn't know the day, so he can't be wrong about it either.

But even if the exact day is unknown it doesn't preclude the "fact" that "all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living." Even if I don't know when your birthday is, doesn't mean it won't occur sometime within the next 365 days.

.

Apparently, John would "remain", whether he died, once or a hundred times, that is not given (John 21:23). I thought I saw "John" in Mombasa in the 1970s, but because I was in an English muted Kiswahili class, I wasn't able to ask.

[dad1]

1948 is not "in that day", the day of the "LORD", for the Jews were, and are not yet fully established in Jerusalem.

Show a verse that says God restored them there? Yes they have to be there for prophesy, but they came on their own. They are not saved yet.

It took until the 2020s before the U.S. established a consulate in Jerusalem. 1948 was a progression of 1917 when the British made the Balfour Declaration whereas the Zionist (Jews) were permitted into Judea. 1967 is just a furtherance of what is going on, as well as 1973 Israeli war. "In that day" would refer to Isaiah 22:15-25 whereas the heir of Peter, the pope, the guy with the supposed key of David, placed over the "royal household", would "fall" and all those hanging onto him (the Gentile church) would be "cut off".

Isaiah 22:20
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:

The guy was a historical figure. Nothing to do with the end time day of the Lord or 1948. Also no one says a pope has any key of David. I would not even trust kids with that guy.

The rest of your post is a conflation of claims strung together that have nothing to do with the topic.

[onewithhim]

Israel must be back in the land in the end time according to the bible.

Hey, the Bible also says:

Mark 13: 30-31
“30 I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living. 31 The whole world, earth and sky, will be destroyed, but my words will last forever.

—Never happened— So, so much for what the Bible says.

Also, the planet and the heavens are never said to be destroyed.

In the given context I'll take the NWT's "will pass away" as synonymous with "destroyed" any day of the week.

Mark 13:31 (New World Translation)
31  Heaven and earth will pass away,+ but my words will by no means pass away.+

Thank you,

.

"Heaven" refers to the governmental arrangements by men. The "earth" here refers to the wicked societies of men. Dig a little deeper.

Hmmm. Well, lets see what the Jehovah's Witnesses Web Site has to say about heaven.

"The word “heaven” is used in three basic senses in the Bible: (1) the physical heavens; (2) the spirit realm; and (3) a symbol of a high or exalted position. In each case, the context helps determine the correct understanding. 

1. The physical heavens. In this sense, “the heavens” refers to earth’s atmosphere, where the winds blow, the birds fly, the clouds produce rain and snow, and the lightning flashes.

2. The spirit realm. The term “heaven” also refers to the spiritual heavens, or spirit realm, a level of existence higher than and outside of the physical universe.

3. A symbol of a high or exalted position. The Scriptures use “heaven” to represent an elevated position."

Ah, not a thing about "'Heaven' referring to the governmental arrangements by men."

.


.

Ah, yes....you have shown it yourself. "Governmental arrangements by men" are situations that are "high and exalted." Elevated positions to be sure. My point is well-documented, even by you.

[onewithhim]

Israel was restored over 2,000 years ago when Cyrus issued the order for the Jews to return to their homeland.

No. That has nothing to do with when all Israel gets saved and Jesus returns and restores them.

Also, the planet and the heavens are never said to be destroyed.

Yet Jesus said heaven and earth will pass away. The New testament tells us we look forward to new heavens.

OWH answers:
Tell me, what sense does it possibly make that God would destroy the entire universe because of what a few generations of wicked men have done?? The "heavens" literally contain BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of stars and planets, so many that we cannot count them. Do you really think that God is going to get rid of them all? No....."new heavens" has two meanings. One, the literal heavens will be rid of any evil (which actually happened when Jesus threw Satan and his demons out of heaven in the recent past), and two, the metaphorical "heavens" is meant to mean the governmental positions by men, which will be totally done away with when Jesus takes over the rule of the literal earth.