The Bible and Science

[The Tanager]

My intent here is more about general approaches to supposed scientific contributions in the Bible, not specific cases (although examples may be helpful to make one's points, of course). I'd love to know what approach you take when looking at the Bible and science. Which of these do you agree with and why?:

1. The Bible makes direct scientific claims so, when they conflict, either the Bible or our current scientific understanding is wrong (or both are).

2. The Bible is a completely metaphorical text, not making direct claims about physical reality

3. The Bible, is mainly concerned with X (teaching what is necessary for salvation or instructing us for next practical step in life of trust in God or whatever), and uses the linguistic and phenomenological understandings of the day to get that message across

4. Something else

[The Tanager]

So, are fables, fantasies, folklore, legends, myths, yarns, and tall tales events? No. They're fictitious stories. A fictitious story is not an event.

actual being defined as: "existing in fact or reality."
event being defined as: "a thing that happens."
fictitious being defined as: "something that is false or does not exist."
story being defined as: "an account of incidents or events."

Have a good day.

Thank you. I hope your day is going wonderful, too. But your question above wasn't the question we were talking about. Of course types of fictional stories are not actual events by the very definition; no one is contesting that. The question is whether at least some of the supposed miracles in the Bible are actual events or fictional stories. Do you think those supposed miracles contradict science? If so, then by your definition of what science is, you should be able to show the "consistent, testable, honest, systematic, analytical, factual, specialized, methodical, cumulative, provisional, verifiable, and open approach" that leads one to that conclusion. Please do.

[William]

1. The Bible makes direct scientific claims so, when they conflict, either the Bible or our current scientific understanding is wrong (or both are).

Is there support that the Bible makes direct scientific claims? If not, then there is no conflict.

2. The Bible is a completely metaphorical text, not making direct claims about physical reality

A blanket statement at best.

3. The Bible, is mainly concerned with X (teaching what is necessary for salvation or instructing us for next practical step in life of trust in God or whatever), and uses the linguistic and phenomenological understandings of the day to get that message across

The statement ignores the many nuances of beliefs presented throughout the books which make up the Bible. If everything were as plain as the statement implies, there would be no explanation for why there are so many competing factions among those who use the Bible.

4. Something else

Probably. But "what"?

I think the subject stems from the long and damaging battle between two types of philosophies which appear - at least on the surface - to be at odds with each other. Supernaturalism and Materialism.

Science is different from scientists, and the majority of scientists are materialists so the conflation occurs when science and scientists are thought of as the same thing, which is generally implied with most arguments coming from Materialism giving the impression that science itself agrees with Materialist Philosophy, when in fact, the philosophy is simply what has come about through the interpretation of what the science has so far revealed.

This also occurs re Supernaturalist Philosophy as the physical universe is interpreted through the belief in a non-physical supernatural "realm" claimed to being responsible for creating said physical universe, and conveniently unavailable to scientific scrutiny.

[myth-one.com]

I was taught that Christopher Columbus discovered the earth was round. However, did someone know that fact thousands of years before Columbus sailed?

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth... (Isaiah 40:22)

And the Bible addresses the power or life in the blood. But the best doctors in past times drained the "bad blood" out of the sick as a medical procedure. I saw such a tool in a Washington DC museum.

The Bible thus relates scientific facts that man in all his wisdom only discovered many years after the Bible scriptures were written!

Since men did not even scientifically discover these facts until hundreds or thousands of years later, these facts written down in the scriptures could not have come from the minds of the men who wrote them at the time they were written!

This lends credence to claims that the scriptures were inspired by God and not mankind.

My favorite scientific Bible fact is that the max life span of an individual man is 120 years.

Sometime around 1975-1980, a group of scientists concluded that human beings could live to a maximum of one hundred and twenty years of age. It was discovered that shortly before reaching one hundred and twenty the process that causes body cells to reproduce fails. The cells then die as well as the person.

They believe it is caused by what they call telomeres. Telomeres are repeating DNA strings (TTAGGG) that cap chromosomes. Each time a cell divides its telomeres become shorter. When they reach a preset length, the cell ceases to divide, ages, and dies -- as does the person.

But Moses came up with the same identical number about 3400 years ago when he wrote the following:

And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. (Genesis 6:3)

How did he know that scientific fact?

Was it a guess, or inspired by something else?

[The Tanager]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #23]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. What do you do with passages that seem to speak to scientific claims that science would disagree with (that the Earth is flat, rests on pillars, has/had a hard dome over it, etc.?

[2timothy316]

My favorite scientific Bible fact is that the max life span of an individual man is 120 years.

Sometime around 1975-1980, a group of scientists concluded that human beings could live to a maximum of one hundred and twenty years of age. It was discovered that shortly before reaching one hundred and twenty the process that causes body cells to reproduce fails. The cells then die as well as the person.

They believe it is caused by what they call telomeres. Telomeres are repeating DNA strings (TTAGGG) that cap chromosomes. Each time a cell divides its telomeres become shorter. When they reach a preset length, the cell ceases to divide, ages, and dies -- as does the person.

But Moses came up with the same identical number about 3400 years ago when he wrote the following:

And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. (Genesis 6:3)

How did he know that scientific fact?

Was it a guess, or inspired by something else?

There is another view on this point. While the science about the telomeres is fine and the telomeres might most certainly have something to do with the aging of mankind. But it seems unlikely that when Moses was writing Genesis he had the lifespan of a human in mind. As the Bible later states in Psalm 90:10, "The years of our life are seventy, or even by reason of strength eighty; yet their span is but toil and trouble; they are soon gone, and we fly away." Equating telomeres with the lifespan and Genesis 6:3 doesn't really match up.

This goes back to what I said about context. What was said at Genesis 6:3 in context was Jehovah speaking about the coming flood. Genesis the whole 6th chapter isn't speaking about the life span of a man. Rather is speaking about how Jehovah had decided that in 120 years He was going to "put an end to all flesh, because the earth is full of violence on account of them, so I am bringing them to ruin together with the earth." - Gen 6:13.
So it is more likely that Genesis the 6th chapter is speaking, not the life span of a man, but the horrible state of all mankind and that God "will not tolerate man indefinitely".