#1 Jesus on hell

[Wootah]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?v ... 18%3A21-35

21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.

28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down [a]at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [c]his trespasses.”

Jesus tells a parable where the master actually tortures the unforgiving servant until he pays all that was due to him and after the parable says God will do this to each of us if we do not forgive each other.

* You can't torture a dead person or an annihilated person, so we know we have to be alive to be tortured.
* We can't pay our debt against God so we know the punishment is eternal.

How is that not a judgement of hell that supports traditional doctrine?

[myth-one.com]

So you do not believe there is any such thing as a singular spiritual body. A spirit without a physical body is an oxymoron. Is that what you are claiming?

No, that's not what I'm claiming.

Grace and peace to you.

Here ia what you claimed:

He (Paul) HAS to be talking about the nature of that physical body. And you even quote it here... a spirit-UAL body, a physical body that is SPIRITUAL, not a spirit, which would have no body, which would make what Paul said here a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron, which is surely not the case.

What is the oxymoron?

Why don't spirits have spiritual bodies?

[myth-one.com]

So you do not believe there is any such thing as a singular spiritual body. A spirit without a physical body is an oxymoron. Is that what you are claiming?

No, that's not what I'm claiming.

Grace and peace to you.

Here ia what you claimed:

He (Paul) HAS to be talking about the nature of that physical body. And you even quote it here... a spirit-UAL body, a physical body that is SPIRITUAL, not a spirit, which would have no body, which would make what Paul said here a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron, which is surely not the case.

What is the oxymoron?

Why don't spirits have spiritual bodies?

[PinSeeker]

So you do not believe there is any such thing as a singular spiritual body. A spirit without a physical body is an oxymoron. Is that what you are claiming?

No, that's not what I'm claiming.

Here is what you claimed:

He (Paul) HAS to be talking about the nature of that physical body. And you even quote it here... a spirit-UAL body, a physical body that is SPIRITUAL, not a spirit, which would have no body, which would make what Paul said here a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron, which is surely not the case.

What is the oxymoron? Why don't spirits have spiritual bodies?

No, they don't, myth-one. They don't. According to John 4:24, God Himself is spirit. He does not have a body. And neither does the Holy Spirit, because He, too, is... spirit. This is the oxymoron you unwittingly present.

Then again, though, the body that we have ~ because we are Christians -- has been made spiritual in nature... this is the sense in which we have been made alive by God, of His Holy Spirit... in addition to it's natural sinful, state. While we are still alive and here on earth.

You know, there are folks of all walks here on this forum, people who believe differently about a lot of stuff. Doesn't it strike you as odd that you are the only one holding fast to this two-body dichotomy? I mean, that's not to say that there isn't a dichotomy at all, but a quite different one than you understanding there to be. At any rate, maybe you do realize this, and you wear it as a badge of honor... maybe...

Anyway... Grace and peace to you.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #213]

No, they don't, myth-one. They don't. According to John 4:24, God Himself is spirit. He does not have a body. And neither does the Holy Spirit, because He, too, is... spirit. This is the oxymoron you unwittingly present.

How can it be, then, that God, who has no body, made us in His image and likeness, yet with and in a body?

Grace and peace to all.

[tam]

Peace to you all,

I apologize, I have not been following the conversation, but just wanted to quickly point out that there are indeed two bodies:

1 - The body that we have right now - with sin and death in it - this is the long garment of skin that was given to Adam and Eve (after they ate from the tree of knowing good and bad). Most people mistake that as being animal skins for clothing, but it is this body that they were clothed in. (Think about how Paul uses the word clothing in 2Corinth 5, re: longing to be clothed, so as not to be naked)

2 - The body that we will receive though (if indeed we receive it) - with only LIFE in it (no sin or death) - is the white robe, the spirit body (Rev 6:11).


Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[myth-one.com]

Why don't spirits have spiritual bodies?

No, they don't, myth-one. They don't. According to John 4:24, God Himself is spirit. He does not have a body. And neither does the Holy Spirit, because He, too, is... spirit. This is the oxymoron you unwittingly present.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh.

That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

It seems obvious that flesh and blood physical natural bodies are born of other flesh and blood physical natural bodies.

It also seems obvious to me that there is indeed something called a spiritual body "There is a spiritual body." And it is actually identified as a body -- not a "nature" or some emotional feeling, or some other such nonsense.

You know, there are folks of all walks here on this forum, people who believe differently about a lot of stuff. Doesn't it strike you as odd that you are the only one holding fast to this two-body dichotomy?

The gospel good news must be preached in the entire world before the second coming and end of this age, the age of man, can occur:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

And the gospel must first be published among all nations. (Mark 13:10)

Gospel means the good news of Christ and His teachings in the scriptures. Part of this good news is not that most humans will suffer everlasting torment in hell for eternity! This would definitely not be good news to anyone, including God. Therefore, most churches have not historically preached the true gospel!

The "great commission" commands Christians to spread the gospel among all nations:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)

However, even with satellites, the internet, and television, will the church ever spread the true gospel among all nations and fulfill the great commission?

Obviously not, since God has to send an angel shortly before the Second Coming to fulfill this prophecy before the end of this age can occur:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

So no, if I am the only one holding to what the scriptures say about the two type of bodies, that would not surprise me. While I expect there are others, the number would be small.

I mean, that's not to say that there isn't a dichotomy at all, but a quite different one than you understanding there to be. At any rate, maybe you do realize this, and you wear it as a badge of honor... maybe...

You have a debate pattern of completely denying something, and then almost immediately claiming it is or at least could be true.

You say that I am the only one in this forum holding fast to this two-body dichotomy, then you imply that there is a two-body dichotomy. You seem to need an exit door -- just in case. Just an observation.

But no, I do not wear anything as a badge of honor. I have no choice but to believe the scriptures, which I was commanded to teach to all the world.

Granted, I failed mankind and God by spreading pretty much the same stuff you believe at present for too many years. I've repeatedly seen how destructive it is.

I doubt very seriously that I will ever be able to help the cause as much as I've hurt it.

One has to start somewhere. As you say, "It is what it is."

[onewithhim]

I cannot believe that someone would say that "death" does not mean the cessation of life, but it means that a person can still function. I am speechless. There is no reasoning with a mind-set like this.

[Checkpoint]

I cannot believe that someone would say that "death" does not mean the cessation of life, but it means that a person can still function. I am speechless. There is no reasoning with a mind-set like this.

Something like that, yes. It almost leaves me speechless at times, too.

But I have found that such opinions are a spur to drive the nail deeper into such nonsensical interpretations and misapplications.

[PinSeeker]

How can it be, then, that God, who has no body, made us in His image and likeness, yet with and in a body?

That's a good question, Checkpoint. I've said quite a bit in past posts about it, but there, I'll just say that it must something different (a lot different) and more (a whole lot more) than that our heads and arms and legs are like His. I'll just leave it at that.

Grace and peace to you, Checkpoint.

[myth-one.com]

How can it be, then, that God, who has no body, made us in His image and likeness, yet with and in a body?

That's a good question, Checkpoint. I've said quite a bit in past posts about it, but there, I'll just say that it must something different (a lot different) and more (a whole lot more) than that our heads and arms and legs are like His. I'll just leave it at that.

Grace and peace to you, Checkpoint.

So now God has "heads and arms and legs " but no body to attach them to?