JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[onewithhim]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

[Falling Light 101]

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I am sorry if I was being rude and stupid . It was not right.

But I tried to make my point in saying that the FATHER was already THE FATHER before The FATHER manifested Himself ( HIS DEITY ) in Human Form as THE SON.

The Manifestations of God are all ( ONE ) Spirit. 1. Deity, 1. God.
God was in Christ reconciling The world unto Himself.

not reconciling The World to the anointing or the Christ, but to Himself.

y studying the Jehovah Witness Faith we see that it places Jesus as on the same level of a created spirit - as of Satan or Michael or Gabriel. As The angels.

But the Word Christ - simply is The Greek Word meaning anointed or Some One anointed.

Yahoshuah / Jesus was the Anointed one.

The very anointing of the Father / Creator = THE SPIRIT himself / itself was the action verb Christ the anointing.

Christ is a Verb word, An action word. - Meaning anointed one

Coming directly from The Greek Word Greek 5548 χ�ι�ω / chriō / Chree'-o
MEANING To smear or rub with oil, that is, (by implication) to consecrate to an office or religious service: - To anoint..

Christ was the ACTION WORD of God the Father / Creator - Spirit placing His Spirit in a Body He created for His spirit to dwell in on earth as a Human being.

[EBA]

Many people, unbelievably. I think some of them have commented on this very thread. I am a member of "Theology On Line" and there are quite a number of people that comment there that insist that Jesus is YHWH! That forum is rather depressing.

Hi onewithin, I happen to believe that Christ is Yahweh. In fact, I believe some of the verses you cited help to prove it.

I do not believe God to be a trinity.

Jesus Christ is not equal to the Father but very close.

Just about everything we read in scripture is about CHRIST, that's how important the Son is to the FATHER.

Christ came to reveal the Father to us!

God Bless.

[marco]

Hi onewithin, I happen to believe that Christ is Yahweh. In fact, I believe some of the verses you cited help to prove it.

I do not believe God to be a trinity.

Jesus Christ is not equal to the Father but very close.

Just about everything we read in scripture is about CHRIST, that's how important the Son is to the FATHER.

Christ came to reveal the Father to us!

It is possible that Christ by some transformation is a carnal manifestation of God, at least in theory. The problem with this is one of schizophrenia, for Jesus refers to the Father. The Trinity may be a way round polytheism but having Christ as a pretend human, pretending to die to appease himself is a fairy tale too far.

We have a human preacher, Christ, who directed our attention to God and asked us to pray to God. There is absolutely no hint that Jesus associated himself physically or consubstantially with God. He deferred to the Father.

[paarsurrey1]

Hi onewithin, I happen to believe that Christ is Yahweh. In fact, I believe some of the verses you cited help to prove it.

I do not believe God to be a trinity.

Jesus Christ is not equal to the Father but very close.

Just about everything we read in scripture is about CHRIST, that's how important the Son is to the FATHER.

Christ came to reveal the Father to us!

It is possible that Christ by some transformation is a carnal manifestation of God, at least in theory. The problem with this is one of schizophrenia, for Jesus refers to the Father. The Trinity may be a way round polytheism but having Christ as a pretend human, pretending to die to appease himself is a fairy tale too far.

We have a human preacher, Christ, who directed our attention to God and asked us to pray to God. There is absolutely no hint that Jesus associated himself physically or consubstantially with God. He deferred to the Father.

I agree with one here. I believe YHVH-Allah doesn't and cannot pretend to be Jesus, a human god.

Regard

[EBA]

It is possible that Christ by some transformation is a carnal manifestation of God, at least in theory. The problem with this is one of schizophrenia, for Jesus refers to the Father.

Yes, he does refer to the Father; here’s one of many examples:

I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. (Joh 17:22)

The Trinity may be a way round polytheism but having Christ as a pretend human, pretending to die to appease himself is a fairy tale too far.

Again, I do not subscribe to the belief in a trinity. but I do believe Christ was created before man; in fact I believe he was created before anything else.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Gen 1:1 )

Christ wears many hats, but a “pretend human� is not one of them.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Heb 2:9)

We have a human preacher, Christ, who directed our attention to God and asked us to pray to God.

He was, is, and will be much more than that:

Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
I and [my] Father are one. ( Joh 10:25-30)

There is absolutely no hint that Jesus associated himself physically or consubstantially with God. He deferred to the Father.

I disagree:

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? (Joh 14:7-9)

Peace.

[marco]

I agree with one here. I believe YHVH-Allah doesn't and cannot pretend to be Jesus, a human god.

Ah, paarsurrey, I fear your agreement will be short-lived. Mythologically or theologically speaking Allah can do what he likes. And that includes deceiving. The Quran tells us so.

Quran 3:54—And the unbelievers planned to deceive, and Allah planned to deceive them, and Allah is the best of deceivers.

Quran 7:99—Are they then safe from Allah's deception? No one feels safe from Allah's deception except those that shall perish.

Quran 8:30—And recall when the unbelievers plotted deception against you (O Muhammad), to imprison you, or kill you, or drive you out. They plotted deception, but Allah also plotted deception; and Allah is the best of deceivers.

[paarsurrey1]

Marco
Allah can do what he likes

Anybody, kindly quote the respective verse with the context verses, some verses preceding the verse and some verses following the verse in question, for the correct understanding of Quran, please.

Regards

[marco]

Marco
Allah can do what he likes

Anybody, kindly quote the respective verse with the context verses, some verses preceding the verse and some verses following the verse in question, for the correct understanding of Quran, please.

There is nothing in the Quran about microwave ovens. Does that mean they don't exist? Personally I think Allah is a complete fiction but one deduces from Muhammad's document what the being can do - and it would seem to be anything.

Anyway here are a few surahs that suggest Allah can work wonders - I thought this was a given for all Muslims.



"That is because Allah, He is the Truth, and it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who is Able to do all things. " 22:6

See also:

46:33;

57:1-5

64:1-4

65:12


This is a good way to get us to read the Quran from cover to cover!

[paarsurrey1]

Marco quoted from Quran in Post 287:
"That is because Allah, He is the Truth, and it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who is Able to do all things. " 22:6

[22:7] That is because Allah is the Truth, and that it is He Who brings the dead to life, and that He has power over all things*;
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... .php?ch=22

*He has the power to do all things which are in accordance with His design and device and which fulfill His purpose.
(Detailed English Commentary)
https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/? ... 2&CR=EN,E2

God won't do anything against His Sunnah, it is clearly mentioned in Quran.
He won't do that shows weakness or is of blemish to do or that is against His attributes to do. He won't do anything negative.

Regards

[marco]

Marco quoted from Quran in Post 287:
"That is because Allah, He is the Truth, and it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who is Able to do all things. " 22:6

[22:7] That is because Allah is the Truth, and that it is He Who brings the dead to life, and that He has power over all things*;
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... .php?ch=22

*He has the power to do all things which are in accordance with His design and device and which fulfill His purpose.
(Detailed English Commentary)
https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/? ... 2&CR=EN,E2

God won't do anything against His Sunnah, it is clearly mentioned in Quran.
He won't do that shows weakness or is of blemish to do or that is against His attributes to do. He won't do anything negative.

Regards

All you have done is offered an alternative translation and then supplied your OWN interpretation, attributing to your God what YOU think he can and cannot do. That's fine, but your interpretation is your opinion.


In the case of interpreting who Jesus was, we go to the source material, the New Testament, and it is possible to take Christ as indicating to Peter that he was God. I do not take this meaning but many others do, for it is a matter of interpretation. What we cannot do is move on seven centuries and accept what Muhammad said. He had no idea. End of story there.