JESUS IS NOT YHWH

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sat May 06, 2017 3:07 pm

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?

I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

marco · Post by **marco** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:18 am

EBA wrote:
And that's not what he said. What he said was: "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

He is speaking metaphorically. It would be odd to conclude that there's a conveyer belt system to God and people have to check in with Jesus first. The clue is in what Christ said: "I am the way, the truth and the life." He wasn't literally all these things, but if he paints himself as truth, then it is through truth that people get to the father. I think that makes more sense than having Jesus inhabit past centuries.

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:11 am

I woke today with the name of Polycarp resounding in my head(I know, strange, but that's how my dreams work). So, of course, I researched further. Went to Philippians. A short book. 2:5-11. "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal to God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, became obedient to the point of death, even death of the cross.

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those of earth, and of those below earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Sound like we are all consubstantial to some degree as God's breath is in us.

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:07 am

brianbbs67 wrote: I woke today with the name of Polycarp resounding in my head(I know, strange, but that's how my dreams work). So, of course, I researched further. Went to Philippians. A short book. 2:5-11. "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal to God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, became obedient to the point of death, even death of the cross.

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those of earth, and of those below earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Sound like we are all consubstantial to some degree as God's breath is in us.

No, it actually sounds like the author of Philippians is deranged, delusional and bereft of logical thought. The text has Jesus claim he is "equal to God." This is blasphemy and absurd on its face.

Or what would you say if I claimed to be "equal to God?"

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:46 am

[Replying to post 322 by Danmark]

None of us are equal. from the same stuff, is different. IE, He gave us life thru His breath. So, a part of Him is with us. He can recall that at any time. Claiming equal, would be blasphemous .

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:59 pm

brianbbs67 wrote: [Replying to post 322 by Danmark]

None of us are equal. from the same stuff, is different. IE, He gave us life thru His breath. So, a part of Him is with us. He can recall that at any time. Claiming equal, would be blasphemous .

Huh? That is exactly what the text says. ""Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal to God...."

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:50 am

Danmark wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: [Replying to post 322 by Danmark]

None of us are equal. from the same stuff, is different. IE, He gave us life thru His breath. So, a part of Him is with us. He can recall that at any time. Claiming equal, would be blasphemous .
Huh? That is exactly what the text says. ""Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal to God...."

Sorry to involve you in my search for opinion. Notice there are no rebuttals. I think this is added later by Trinity(Athenaeous' camp). Just like the verse in Mark about all food being cleansed is thought by nearly all scholars to be added later. Who knows? I am not claiming one side or the other. I am claiming the contradictions, glaring at us.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:21 pm

Danmark wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: I woke today with the name of Polycarp resounding in my head(I know, strange, but that's how my dreams work). So, of course, I researched further. Went to Philippians. A short book. 2:5-11. "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal to God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, became obedient to the point of death, even death of the cross.

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those of earth, and of those below earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Sound like we are all consubstantial to some degree as God's breath is in us.
No, it actually sounds like the author of Philippians is deranged, delusional and bereft of logical thought. The text has Jesus claim he is "equal to God." This is blasphemy and absurd on its face.

Or what would you say if I claimed to be "equal to God?"

Actually the author of Philippians did not write that Jesus was equal to God. I love the King James Version, but it gets things muddled quite often. Many other versions translate that passage very differently. Just three of them are:

1)"Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped." (New American Bible)

2)"Who, being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped." (New International Version)

3)"Although he was like God in nature, he never even considered seizing the chance to be equal with God." (21st Century New Testament)

The writer of Philippians was actually making the point that Jesus would not even let it cross his mind that he might be equal to God. BTW, to "grasp" something means to take something that you did not already have. That is the sense of that word in the Greek.

Monta · Post by **Monta** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:42 am

[Replying to post 326 by onewithhim]

1)"Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped." (New American Bible)

2)"Who, being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped." (New International Version)

3)"Although he was like God in nature, he never even considered seizing the chance to be equal with God." (21st Century New Testament)

What does 'did not consider equality with God to be grasped' mean?

Jesus knew who He was: I come from the Father; the Word became flesh (that which God spoke and what He was, Truth); I am the Way the Truth and the Life.
"those who received Him to them gave He power to become sons of God' -did Jesus steal the power from Jehovah and bestowed the sonships on his worshipers?
The scripture is clear on His humanity (from Mary) and His Divinity (from the Father).

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:50 pm

Monta wrote: [Replying to post 326 by onewithhim]

1)"Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped." (New American Bible)

2)"Who, being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped." (New International Version)

3)"Although he was like God in nature, he never even considered seizing the chance to be equal with God." (21st Century New Testament)

What does 'did not consider equality with God to be grasped' mean?

Jesus knew who He was: I come from the Father; the Word became flesh (that which God spoke and what He was, Truth); I am the Way the Truth and the Life.
"those who received Him to them gave He power to become sons of God' -did Jesus steal the power from Jehovah and bestowed the sonships on his worshipers?
The scripture is clear on His humanity (from Mary) and His Divinity (from the Father).

Jesus did not even have a thought about trying to grasp any kind of equality with God. It didn't occur to him, I would say. He had no interest in trying to become on an equal plane with his Father.

You seem to be adding to the verses that the Apostle John wrote. Yes, Jesus came from the Father. No indication of equality there. Neither is there when he says that he is "the way, the truth, and the life." Whatever power he had was GIVEN to him by the Father. This is evident throughout the Scriptures. He didn't "steal" any power. It was granted to him by Jehovah, because he "always did the things pleasing to the Father." (John 8:29)

Monta · Post by **Monta** » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:34 am

[Replying to post 328 by onewithhim]

"Jesus did not even have a thought about trying to grasp any kind of equality with God. It didn't occur to him, I would say. He had no interest in trying to become on an equal plane with his Father.

You seem to be adding to the verses that the Apostle John wrote. Yes, Jesus came from the Father. No indication of equality there. Neither is there when he says that he is "the way, the truth, and the life." Whatever power he had was GIVEN to him by the Father. This is evident throughout the Scriptures. He didn't "steal" any power. It was granted to him by Jehovah, because he "always did the things pleasing to the Father." (John 8:29)"

I don't have a though about trying to grasp that i am human! Would be bit silly if I did. Why would Lord Christ spend time on something that makes no sense?

You are saying that Jehovah God GAVE the power of Life Itself to someone lower than Himself. Can anything be higher than Life Itself? If they both have Power of Life they are equal. Earthly father can bestow all sorts of power to his son, but here we are talking about Divine Being who can not be divided.