Do you have the hope of going to heaven

[JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?



* My question is for people that do believe that a God exists, since I presume that those that do not believe in God do believe he exists anywhere and therefore there is no "heaven" where God is.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 360 by Claire Evans]

I posted a new link because you weren't convinced of the former and still aren't, I see. I give you examples:

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-gravity_technology

I'm going to do a more in depth response to you Claire, maybe tonight, once I have the time...but I just want to comment on this real quick.

Did you just cite a wiki for a fictional video game series as though you think it gives us a real example of anti grav technology?

What's next? Citing Memory Alpha, the Star Trek wiki, for examples of "real" warp drives?

I am not being insulting when I ask this but...are you able to separate fiction from reality?

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 360 by Claire Evans]

I posted a new link because you weren't convinced of the former and still aren't, I see. I give you examples:

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-gravity_technology

I'm going to do a more in depth response to you Claire, maybe tonight, once I have the time...but I just want to comment on this real quick.

Did you just cite a wiki for a fictional video game series as though you think it gives us a real example of anti grav technology?

What's next? Citing Memory Alpha, the Star Trek wiki, for examples of "real" warp drives?

I am not being insulting when I ask this but...are you able to separate fiction from reality?

It doesn't matter what I quote. I referred to a science page and you weren't happy.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 360 by Claire Evans]

I posted a new link because you weren't convinced of the former and still aren't, I see. I give you examples:

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-gravity_technology

I'm going to do a more in depth response to you Claire, maybe tonight, once I have the time...but I just want to comment on this real quick.

Did you just cite a wiki for a fictional video game series as though you think it gives us a real example of anti grav technology?

What's next? Citing Memory Alpha, the Star Trek wiki, for examples of "real" warp drives?

I am not being insulting when I ask this but...are you able to separate fiction from reality?

It doesn't matter what I quote. I referred to a science page and you weren't happy.

Halo isn't science Claire. It's fiction. Made up. As in, the original authors know it is made up and so do their audience, including myself. I've played the games. I know it is made up, that what they talk about isn't true. For one thing, it's set about 500 years in the future.
So why, in a discussion about technology such as anti-grav, you'd link to something deliberately made up that its audience knows is made up for examples of real world anti-gravs I don't know.
If I were to ask for a real world example of a faster than light engine, it would not be science if you were to link me to the Star Trek wiki.

[RightReason]

Yes, I believe in heaven. I think the JW teaching on heaven is incorrect.

The Watchtower Society teaches that the earth will never be destroyed or depopulated. How can it be, then, that God says in Isa 51:6, "... the earth itself will wear out, and its inhabitants will die like a mere gnat ...", and that Jesus says in Mt 24:35, "Heaven and earth will pass away...", and that John says in Rev 21:1 that he saw "... a new heaven and a NEW earth, for the former heaven and the FORMER earth had passed away, and the sea is no more."?

http://www.bible.ca/jw-questions.htm

[onewithhim]

Yes, I believe in heaven. I think the JW teaching on heaven is incorrect.

The Watchtower Society teaches that the earth will never be destroyed or depopulated. How can it be, then, that God says in Isa 51:6, "... the earth itself will wear out, and its inhabitants will die like a mere gnat ...", and that Jesus says in Mt 24:35, "Heaven and earth will pass away...", and that John says in Rev 21:1 that he saw "... a new heaven and a NEW earth, for the former heaven and the FORMER earth had passed away, and the sea is no more."?

http://www.bible.ca/jw-questions.htm

It (Isa.51:6) is a poetic way of saying that the ability of God to save mankind will outlast anything, and the same thing concerning Jesus' words in Matt.24:35...nothing will outlast the truth of his words. John says the same things that Isaiah and Peter had said....the former "heaven" will pass away, because there will be a new government over the earth, Jesus' own Kingdom. That is what the "heaven" means. The former means of government over the earth will be replaced by Jesus' rule. The "new earth" is a new, righteous society of mankind. There is no more "sea" of disgruntled, agitated humans.

What do you say about Ecclesiastes 1:4? "The earth remains forever."

[JehovahsWitness]

The Watchtower Society teaches that the earth will never be destroyed or depopulated. How can it be, then, that God says in Isa 51:6, "... the earth itself will wear out, and its inhabitants will die like a mere gnat ...", and that Jesus says in Mt 24:35, "Heaven and earth will pass away...", and that John says in Rev 21:1 that he saw "... a new heaven and a NEW earth, for the former heaven and the FORMER earth had passed away, and the sea is no more."?

http://www.bible.ca/jw-questions.htm

Because Jehovah's Witnesses are not bible literalist. Not everything in the bible is to be taken literally. The passages in Isaiah and Matthew should be not be understood to be a litral end to the literal heavens and planet earth.

JW

[RightReason]

[Replying to onewithhim]


remains or abides forever does not imply external existence for the planet. The Hebrew word rendered forever simply means a long period of time. The Hebrew phrase forever often signifies a periodical perpetuity, a long indefinite time, not an infinite. The same word is used in reference to other things which are not eternal in duration . . .

the land promise (Genesis ), circumcision (17:13), the Passover feast (Ex. 12:14), the priesthood of Aaron (Ex. 29:9), the Sabbath Day (Ex. 31:16-17). The word "forever" was rightly used of such things, because all these things lasted during the entire age for which they were designed. The earth is the permanent ground or scene on which all generations will come and go. This is the permanent stage for man"s physical history. But one day that stage will be removed (2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 20:11)


https://www.studylight.org/commentary/e ... s/1-4.html

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 366 by JehovahsWitness]

Then no need to take Ecclesiastes 1:4 "The earth remains forever." literally either.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 366 by JehovahsWitness]

Then no need to take Ecclesiastes 1:4 "The earth remains forever." literally either.

Some versus are to be taken literally some verses are not. Context and the internal harmony of the bible message is what will dictate.

QUESTION: Does the bible teach that the literal planet earth will last forever?

The bible uses the word "earth" both literally to refer to the planet and figuratively to refer to mankind or human society*. In the case of Ecclesiates 1:4 it is noteworthy that the permanence of the "earth" is contrasted with transitory nature of each passing generation of humans. Thus there is good reason to conclude the writer was indeed refering to the literal planet earth which is often used in Hebrew writing as a symbol of that which is permanent, unchanging and stable.


What is the bible overall message regarding the literal planet earth?

The bible contains numerous promises that indicate that the literal planet figures in the eternal future of the righteous (see Matthew 6:10, Psalm 37:29 and 104:5, Proverbs 2:21, 22). Isaiah 65 speaks about people building houses, planting and eating under the promised Messianic rule as well as enjoying the animal kingdom and peace reigning from "sea to sea" hardly references to a spiritual realm.


The Earth: here "forever" or "for a long time"?

The Hebrews had several words which we often render in English as "forever". One of these Hebrew words "olam", basically means where "the end cannot be seen", this can of course mean you cannot see the end because there *iIS* no end (it's "everlasting" or "eternal") and/or because the end is obscure or has not been revealed. Note, for example Isaiah 40:28 which speaks of God as being (Olam) "to time indefinite"Isa 40:28). Obviously in this case, God can be understood to be "olam" because his end cannot be seen because it does not exist (rather than because God's end has not yet be revealed). So while "olam" does not itself mean eternal (without end) it can be encompassed in the idea.

We can understand which of the above meanings can be attributed to Ecclesiates 1:4 by refering to other verses dealing with the same topic. For example Psalms 37:29 which speaks of the righteous residing "forever" upon the earth, uses another Hebrew word echadh. This word, does indeed denotes unlimited future time, everlastingness, or eternity. ( compare 1Ch 28:9; Ps 19:9; Isa 9:6; 45:17; Hab 3:6). Thus we also read in Psalms 104:5 It [the earth] will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever (Heb. adh).

Further Word Study (Tim)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 64#p856464

CONCLUSION: Taking the overall bible message regarding the earth and comparing the specific terms used in various bible passages, it seems reasonable to conclude that the bible does indeed contain a message of this literal planet earth being eternal, without end.

Are there numerous scriptures that speak of an EARTHLY reward for the righteous?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 33#p812533



* For verses where the word "earth" is used figuratively see Genesis 11:1, First Kings 2:1, 2, First Chronicles 16:31, Psalm 96:1

[RightReason]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

"Some versus are to be taken literally some verses are not. Context and the internal harmony of the bible message is what will dictate."

Yes, that is very much what my faith believes and which is why I disagree greatly with the JW interpretation. If read as a whole I believe the correct Biblical understanding is that this Earthly planet is not the heaven that awaits us.

Many religions pick and choose passages they wish to highlight and ones they wish to ignore. And it certainly could be argued that two very sincere, intelligent individuals could both read the very same thing and have two very different understandings about what is meant, which is why Jesus left us His Church -- to safeguard Sacred Scripture and make sure we are getting it right.