The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife

[William]

Lately some of us have been arguing from three differing positions is which the bible can be used to defend all three. All three appear to agree that each individual has a "Soul" although there may be disagreement on what the exact function of a "Soul" is.

[1] A "Person" is "Spirit" and temporarily exists as a human being until the body dies then that "Person" enters an afterlife and is judged by "God" and is condemned or saved. Those saved go to "heaven" and those condemned go to "Hell" - or in some variances on this, are "exterminated".

[2] A "Person" a "Human being" and when the human being dies, that is the end of that person unless "God" judges them as "saved" in which case that person is resurrected and given a new body which will last forever more.

[3] A "Person" is an eternal Spirit in human form and when the body dies, that Spirit immediately moves to the next phase and either knowingly or unknowingly creates for their self, their next experience, based upon a combination of mainly what they believe, what their overall attitude is and what they did in the previous phase.

Often any different position which opposes another might logically mean that they both cannot be correct, assuming one or the other is true.

Both [1]&[2] fall into this category as they cannot both be true. [1]&[2] also both agree that [3] is false.

However, [3] Can be true without making the other two false.

And [3] - just as with [1]&[2] can be backed by the bible, depending on what parts of the bible once uses to do so.

The bible is interpreted throughout, based upon which position [1][2] or [3] is being used to interpret it through [the filter].

If [1]&[2] oppose each other but can still be "proven" by using the bible, then this makes the bible something of a contradiction.

But if [3] - although different from [1]&[2] does not oppose either [1]&[2] and can still be "proven" by using the bible just like [1]&[2], then [3] takes away the contradictory aspect of the bible which [1]&[2] create by being in opposition.

Question: Would it be fair to say therefore, that [3] is the best position to assume on the overall biblical script to do with the subject of the next phase [afterlife]?

[RightReason]

If the "soul" of believers is reunited with their dead human bodies at the final resurrection as you claim, then they cannot inherit the Kingdom of God according to the Bible.

Isn't that a problem?

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God -- which is the goal and reward of the saved.

Thus the "resurrection of the body" theology blocks believers from their goal.

Luke 24:39 shows that the glorified Jesus has flesh (“a spirit hath not flesh and bones”), so 1 Corinthians 15:50 can’t mean resurrected beings have no flesh or blood. What does Paul mean, then, when he declares, “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God”? He’s saying that natural, physical life as it is now constituted cannot inherit the kingdom of God. A supernatural transformation must occur first (1 Cor 15:53).

https://www.catholic.com/qa/doesnt-1-co ... s-no-blood

Jesus no longer has a corruptible and mortal body like ours (or “flesh and blood body”). Instead, Jesus has a body infused with supernatural power, or spirit, that makes it “incorruptible” without being immaterial.
Likewise, when Paul says, “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God,” he is using a “Semitism,” or a Jewish way of speaking about the natural state of humanity apart from the grace of God. We can’t inherit the kingdom without being moved by God’s spirit, but that doesn’t mean we will only be spirits. Spiritual in this context refers to a thing’s orientation as opposed to its substance. It’s like when we say the Bible is a “spiritual book” or when Paul says, “He who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one” (1 Cor. 2:15).
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/onlin ... -spiritual

[myth-one.com]

If the "soul" of believers is reunited with their dead human bodies at the final resurrection as you claim, then they cannot inherit the Kingdom of God according to the Bible.

Isn't that a problem?

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God -- which is the goal and reward of the saved.

Thus the "resurrection of the body" theology blocks believers from their goal.

Luke 24:39 shows that the glorified Jesus has flesh (“a spirit hath not flesh and bones”), so 1 Corinthians 15:50 can’t mean resurrected beings have no flesh or blood. What does Paul mean, then, when he declares, “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God”? He’s saying that natural, physical life as it is now constituted cannot inherit the kingdom of God. A supernatural transformation must occur first (1 Cor 15:53).

https://www.catholic.com/qa/doesnt-1-co ... s-no-blood

Jesus no longer has a corruptible and mortal body like ours (or “flesh and blood body”). Instead, Jesus has a body infused with supernatural power, or spirit, that makes it “incorruptible” without being immaterial.
Likewise, when Paul says, “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God,” he is using a “Semitism,” or a Jewish way of speaking about the natural state of humanity apart from the grace of God. We can’t inherit the kingdom without being moved by God’s spirit, but that doesn’t mean we will only be spirits. Spiritual in this context refers to a thing’s orientation as opposed to its substance. It’s like when we say the Bible is a “spiritual book” or when Paul says, “He who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one” (1 Cor. 2:15).
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/onlin ... -spiritual

Jesus Christ stated that He was resurrected as a man, claiming that He could not be a spirit because spirits do not have flesh and bones and a need for food as He had.

Although He was seen being carried by angels into heaven about 40 days later:

And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. (Luke 24:51)

He could not enter the Kingdom of God as a man, as flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

Therefore, His mission as a man being completed, He is back in heaven as the Word.

======================================================

The Word was made flesh as Jesus so that Jesus could:

1 -- live a sinless human life.

2 -- And thus become the first and only human to qualify for everlasting life under the Old Testament Covenant.

3 -- And then offer His inheritance of everlasting life to every human who accepted Him as their Savior.

4 -- His mission being completed and instituted through the New Testament Covenant, there is no longer any human Jesus Christ.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus Christ stated that He was resurrected as a man,...

Where did he do that? Stated means he said the words .... where do you read a single time the risen Jesus saying "stating" the word MAN in his own regard ?




JW

[William]

[1] A "Person" is "Spirit" and temporarily exists as a human being until the body dies then that "Person" enters an afterlife and is judged by "God" and is condemned or saved. Those saved go to "heaven" and those condemned go to "Hell" - or in some variances on this, are "exterminated".

I reject #1 because a person is not a spirit. A person is body and soul. And we do not only have a body on earth, and then only a soul in the after life.

"Soul" according to Catholics Answers is Spirit. Therefore yes [1] as Spirit these will have some type of body in order to be able to be placed in heaven or hell...so also an aspect of [2] thus - a mix of both positions, rather than something completely different.

[2] A "Person" a "Human being" and when the human being dies, that is the end of that person unless "God" judges them as "saved" in which case that person is resurrected and given a new body which will last forever more.

I reject #2 because a person is not just a body. Again, a person is created body and soul. And not only those saved will live forever. All created human beings are immortal. You will either spend eternity in heaven or hell.

As pointed out, your 'rejection' is simply because your position of belief includes aspects from both [1]&[2] but in that does not constitute a new position, but a mixture of aspects of both positions.

[3] A "Person" is an eternal Spirit in human form and when the body dies, that Spirit immediately moves to the next phase and either knowingly or unknowingly creates for their self, their next experience, based upon a combination of mainly what they believe, what their overall attitude is and what they did in the previous phase.

I reject #3 because a person is not just a spirit in human form. A person was created both body and soul. And while yes, when the physical body dies at death and the soul continues on, the person will receive their glorified body back at the resurrection.

You therefore reject [3] because your position is a mix of aspects of [1]&[2] which both reject [3] as the OP points out.

All three positions actually share the idea that some type of container is necessary for the Spirit to experience through...[no point in going to heaven or hell if Spirit has no container in which to experience these places through.]

[3] is not restricted to any particular body but is free to use whatever form necessary for whatever function required.

[1]&[2] are specific to the uninitiated, whereas [3] is specific to those who have cast off the bonds of such beliefs as would otherwise prevent initiation...initiation into all truth...not simply what is believed to be all truth, but what is actually all truth.

One such example is that 'the soul' is not something we have. It is what we actually are [Formless Eternal Spirit] in our formless state - the pure image of The Eternal Creator as The Eternal Creator is also formless Spirit. Pure in relation to being 'without form'.

As [1]&[2] are beliefs that "who we are" is a mixture of both the form and the formless, this is not all truth [the whole truth].
All form is simply a thing which Spirit puts on in order to experience whatever the form is designed to allow the Spirit to experience. It is therefore an illusion [not all truth] to believe ones self is "both the Spirit and the instrument" as the instrument is simply a device through which certain types of experiences can be had, and this is no different whether the form is physical or metaphysical - made to last forever or made to have a use-by date.
Forms which are made to last forever, in no way mean that Spirits using said forms are bound or otherwise trapped within said forms forever.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #43]

Whatever body Jesus wore after his body was buried, it was obviously not the one he had been using during his mission as he wasn't recognized by those who had been closest to him and it also had the ability to change, be invisible/move through solid objects...

Either that or it was his original body and had those attributes and more [could walk on water etc...] and so was never really a human body from the go-get.

[RightReason]

He could not enter the Kingdom of God as a man, as flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

Therefore, His mission as a man being completed, He is back in heaven as the Word.

He can do anything He likes. He is God. And everyone witnessed as His body ascended into heaven. And this does not contradict this statement, “flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God.” for exactly the reasons I already posted -- natural, physical life as it is now constituted cannot inherit the kingdom of God. A supernatural transformation must occur first (1 Cor 15:53)

Jesus is in heaven with His glorified body.

[myth-one.com]

Jesus Christ stated that He was resurrected as a man,...

Where did he do that? Stated means he said the words .... where do you read a single time the risen Jesus saying "stating" the word MAN in his own regard ?

JW

Jesus was resurrected from the tomb as a human, and ascended to heaven as a spirit shortly afterward.


When Jesus first appeared to His disciples after being resurrected from the tomb, they initially thought they were seeing a spirit, ghost, or apprition:

But they were terrified and affrightened, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (Luke 24:37-39)

Jesus Christ states that "a spirit hath not flesh and bones." He then invited them to touch Him and discover that He did indeed have flesh and bones.

If spirits do not have flesh and bones, and Jesus did have flesh and bones, then Jesus was not a spirit!

They then gave Him fish and a honeycomb and He ate it:

And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of a honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them. (Luke 24:42-43)

Spirits don't need food to survive. Men do. So this is one more proof that Jesus was a man after His resurrection.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus Christ stated that He was resurrected as a man,...

But they were terrified and affrightened, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (Luke 24:37-39)

I cannot begin to tell you how disinterested I am in how you reason. I asked a simple question: Did Jesus say the word "man"? . You falsely said Jesus stated something that He did not; you said he stated (said) he was a man. That is untrue, the risen Christ never once uttered (stated/said) those words. To prove me wrong you will need to provide a direct quote where he made the statement he was a man. You cannot do so.

I do not take kindly to people misattributing statements to my Lord, I have nothing more to say to you on this point,



JW

[William]

Clearly we can observe the evidence in recent posts of how those who hold the positions of [1]&[2] [or a mix of both] remain in conflict with one another in relation to the details of their separate and contradictory beliefs about what happens in the next phase experience. Each thinking they are right while all others are wrong.

This is why [3] will always be the better position to hold, for it allows for all who hold beliefs related to [1]&[2] to experience the results of these beliefs in a manner which does not take away from them their free will to choose to believe whatever they want, whilst allowing The Eternal Creator to remain outside of the drama's [conflicts] such beliefs inevitably create and thus not directly the reason why these conflicts happen even that The Eternal Creator is claimed to be the reason for why such conflicting beliefs are 'true' when really such beliefs are based upon false images of The Eternal Creator, which believers think of as real.

So they each will create for themselves, exactly what they believe in as real, even that this contributes to their remaining in ignorance of all truth, for as long a time as it takes for them to let go of the false imagery and come out from under the illusion said false imagery creates.

[PinSeeker]

Luke 24:39 shows that the glorified Jesus has flesh (“a spirit hath not flesh and bones”), so 1 Corinthians 15:50 can’t mean resurrected beings have no flesh or blood. What does Paul mean, then, when he declares, “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God”? He’s saying that natural, physical life as it is now constituted cannot inherit the kingdom of God. A supernatural transformation must occur first (1 Cor 15:53).

Absolutely agreed, but two clarifications to make:

• That man in his natural state -- sinful man -- cannot inherit the kingdom of God. It has nothing to do with mere physicality.

• Yes, there must be a supernatural transformation, but this is the removal of guilt for sin and the imputation of the righteousness of Christ, which can only be done by God via His Holy Spirit. If this transformation takes place, then man -- physical man -- can (and will, along with Christ as His co-heir) inherit the kingdom of God.

Jesus no longer has a corruptible and mortal body like ours (or “flesh and blood body”). Instead, Jesus has a body infused with supernatural power, or spirit, that makes it “incorruptible” without being immaterial.

Right, because -- as I said -- Jesus always was and always will be fully God (God the Son, of course, and not God the Father or God the Holy Spirit).

Likewise, when Paul says, “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God,” he is using a “Semitism,” or a Jewish way of speaking about the natural state of humanity apart from the grace of God. We can’t inherit the kingdom without being moved by God’s spirit, but that doesn’t mean we will only be spirits.

Right. As Ezekiel puts it, we must have our natural hearts of stone removed and be given hearts of flesh. We must be brought -- in this life -- from a state of spiritual death to a state of spiritual life. We must be no longer "in Adam" but in Christ. This is the supernatural transformation that takes place, and it is, as I said above, a work of God:

• "I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. And I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses." (Ezekiel 36)

• "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2)

• "...He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." (Philippians 1)

• "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." (Philippians 2)

• "...let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith..." (Hebrews 12)

Spiritual in this context refers to a thing’s orientation as opposed to its substance. It’s like when we say the Bible is a “spiritual book” or when Paul says, “He who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one” (1 Cor. 2:15).

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but it sounds to me like you're copying and pasting from some other source, which is okay with me, but well said.

Grace and peace to all.