What does 1 Thessalonians 4:14 mean?

[Checkpoint]

The immediate context is this passage from 1 Thessalonians 4.

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

So, how do you read, what do you understand, is the intended meaning of the words in bold above?

To help us along, tell us whether you see them as primarily referring to verses 13 and 14, or to verses 15 to 17.

Please note however, this thread is not about other issues you may view as being related, such as the details of prophecy.

It is about the fact of the second coming and the resurrection that then occurs.

[JehovahsWitness]

the Kingdom is established upon the earth, that Christ and His own reign upon the earth (as is written in Revelation). That does not mean that God left the spiritual realm.

Just for clarity, isn't the spiritual realm "heaven"? Are you saying God will not leave heaven (the spiritual realm) because he is everywhere anyway?

I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

Are you saying God does not come "out of heaven" when he comes to rule on earth with Jesus (and the Bride)?

[tam]

[Replying to post 47 by JehovahsWitness]

IF you read the entire post that you are quoting part of, you will see that I said they DO enter the spiritual realm. They may (and do) enter both. Come in and go out. As Christ said we will (not may or can, but WILL) do, as the angels can do (and Christ said that we will be like the angels).





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

(and I think this is also the time of the union/marriage between the Bride and the Lamb.) But the New Jerusalem (the Bride) also comes down out of heaven and she reigns upon the earth with Christ, a thousand years.

Who is "the bride" (the New Jerusalem)?

Christians (all of whom are anointed with holy spirit).

(though not everyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian... as you know)


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

That also does not mean that Christ (and us) cannot enter the spiritual realm and the physical realm.

So (correct me if I'm wrong) Christ comes out of heaven and rules on the earth but is going back and forth between the two realms (earthly realm and heavenly realm) while ruling. Is that about right?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 46 by tam]

Would it be accurate to say:

Earthly realm = earth (the literal physical planet earth)
Heavenly realm = heaven (spiritual realm where the angels live)

The new body (the white robe - which represents the spirit body) has LIFE in it; and it can come into spiritual realm. Which realm we will move in and out OF.

[JehovahsWitness]

God is not on His way to the earth at that time.

What do you mean "at that time"? Are you implying that there WILL be a time when God travels to the earth? How is this possible if he is everywhere?

God is in the spiritual realm.

What does this mean, do you mean God is in heaven? If God is everywhere how will things change in this respect when he comes down out of heaven (whenever that is) even if it is for a fleeting visit?

[tam]

So (correct me if I'm wrong) Christ comes out of heaven and rules on the earth but is going back and forth between the two realms (earthly realm and heavenly realm) while ruling. Is that about right?

Yes, both.

The Kingdom is established upon the earth. He is the King of His Kingdom.

And He does, after all, have all authority in heaven AND on earth.

Would it be accurate to say:

Earthly realm = earth (the literal physical planet earth)
Heavenly realm = heaven (spiritual realm where the angels live)

Yes, I think so. That is what I mean at least.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

God is not on His way to the earth at that time. God is in the spiritual realm.

What does this mean? If God is everywhere what does the expression "God is not on his way to the earth" mean? How is he "in the spiritual realm" ?

I don't understand your question JW.

You are the one who keeps suggesting that God is coming down to earth with Christ. I never said that.

How can I answer questions on something that you introduced?


Peace again!

[JehovahsWitness]

You are the one who keeps suggesting that God is coming down to earth with Christ. I never said that.

Okay, so what does it mean that the "tent of God" will be with mankind?

Where will God be while Christ is ruling from a physical location ON this planet earth (albeit moving back and forth between the physical planet earth and the heavenly spirit realm where the angel lives) for 1000 years?

When the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven, God won't be with it?

JW

[tam]

To perhaps help you (or anyone reading) to be able to get a sense of God being 'everywhere' (although those are not my words), and God also being able to come down to earth:

God did this once already, yes? When He came down to reveal Himself to Israel? But the people were terrified, and instead of hearing or even seeing God, they wanted to go through Moses instead. They did not actually see God, Himself, but He came down... in more than just a "God is everywhere" way. Yes?


That is what my Lord reminded me of when I was struggling to understand your (JW) question (and its answer) on that topic. So I am sharing that with you as well.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy