The Roman Crucifixion

[placebofactor]

The Crucifixion:
I wrote the following some 25 years ago. I do not recall the name of the doctor who did the research concerning the human body when put through the torture of crucifixion. But I remember how it moved me. We read casually about the punishment and crucifixion, not fully getting the impact and degree of suffering.

The Persians between 539 B.C. and 335 B.C. were the inventors of the Crucifixion. They tied their victims to a single stake and left them there to die a slow and agonizing death. Eventually, around 100 B.C., the Romans picked up on this form of torture and death, then brought it to a new level of pain and eventual death. The word ‘excruciating’ did not exist until Christ was crucified. Excruciating interpreted means, “Pain out of the cross.”

Jesus' suffering began in earnest at Gethsemane. It was the day before the Jewish Passover, in early April of 31 A.D. Luke 22:44, “And being in agony he (Jesus) prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood.” because blood may have been mixed with his sweat, he would have been under great physiological stress.

He was then blindfolded and then taken to the high priest’s palace where he was falsely accused of blasphemy, spit on, and beaten. He was then taken to Pilate, and here was Pilate’s offer to the people.
Matthew 27:17, “Who will you that I release unto you? Barabbas or Jesus which is called Christ? And the crowd answered “Barabbas.” They also cried out, “Let his blood be on us, and on our children.”

Barabbas means “son of the Father.” The people called for the “son of God, so they called for Barabbas. The Roman soldiers mocked him, stripped him, put a scarlet robe on him, then made a crown of thorns and placed it on his head. The thorns that grow in that area are two inches in length. The soldiers would have pressed the thorns down on his head cutting deeply into the flesh. They then bowed down mocking him, saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!”

Isaiah gives further details concerning Jesus' punishment. Isaiah 53:3, He was despised, rejected,” --- Verse 4, “Surely he hath born our griefs and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten”--- wounded, bruised, and “with his stripes” we are healed.”

The Roman whip consists of three braided pieces of rawhide, attached to a round wooden handle, the last 12 inches were not braided. At the ends of the three lashes were tied pieces of sheep bone and iron lead balls. The iron balls would cause deep contusions in the skin tissue, and the bone would cause deep lacerations in the skin, tendons, and muscles under the skin.

The victim was tied to a post, and the Roman soldier doing the lashing would whip the upper back and work their way down the legs. He would move to the other side and repeat his work. When finished, there would be deep cuts and trauma to the back and legs. The blood loss would be significant, causing a significant drop in his blood pressure. Normally 39 lashes were required by law, but the Romans were not obligated to Jewish law, and depending on their mood no count was necessary.

The crossbeam Jesus carried is estimated to weigh 75 to 100 lbs. When they arrived where the sentence was to be carried out, the crossbeam was nailed to the vertical beam that lay on the ground. He was then laid down on top of the vertical beam his arms in a horizontal position before being nailed to it. The nails used were about 6” long and ¼ inch square. They were driven into the wrist just below the carpal bones, considered part of the hand back then. The nails crushed the median nerve and carpal tunnel causing a great deal of excruciating pain. Then the feet were nailed down into the vertical beam. But before they were nailed down, the knees would have to be bent to bring the feet down flat on the beam. The driven nail would crush the medial plantar nerve causing great pain throughout his body.

When finished, the vertical beam was lifted and set in place. When this happened, the weight of Jesus' body would be pulled downward, placing a great deal of pressure on the elbow and shoulder joints, as well as the nails in his feet being driven up into the bones of the feet. It is estimated that the load on his elbow and shoulder joints was between 150 to 200 lbs. on each arm. This would cause the bones of his joints to separate, lengthening his arms six inches. What prevented the arms from tearing off were the tendons and muscles.

In this position, breathing out was much more difficult than breathing in. To exhale, the Lord had to push down on the nails holding his feet to the beam to raise himself. Each time he would make this move, the open flesh on his back would rub up and down on the beam.

Eventually, in his condition, the blood became filled with carbon dioxide causing him to suffocate. Also, from the loss of blood, he would become very thirsty as his tongue would cleave to the roof of his mouth. Due to the loss of blood, he would go into bulimic shock and eventually die of heart failure.

The Roman guard then plunged a spear into the right side of his heart causing blood and water to come out through the wound, proving that he was dead. If he had been alive, they would have broken both of his legs.
So, the next time you look at, or speak of the man hanging from the cross, understand fully what he suffered for every one of us. Also, have you ever considered how the Lord feels when we fail him in words, deeds, motives, and love?

[placebofactor]

For example, if 2000 years from now people dug up this forum and noticed 99% of posts refering to "Jesus" were refering one part of a truine god, as confirmed by numerous documented sources (not least of which being the Vatican) and found this to be official "christian" doctrine. Would any of that be decisive in understaning a page found in a Watchtower magazine from the same period?

I do always enjoy your analogies, so let me try to use this one to help explain my point.

If people 2,000 years from now are looking at a Watchtower magazine -- trying to figure out what this long, lost group of Jehovah's Witnesses believed -- and that article says they don't believe in the Trinity, then that, of course, supersedes any background knowledge we might have about what Christians generally believed about God. Direct evidence always supersedes our background knowledge.

But let's say we didn't have a lot of Watchtower articles to go on -- so there were holes in our understanding of Jehovah's Witness beliefs, and perhaps some ambiguity in the articles themselves, so it wasn't always clear what they believed. But let's say we also knew that Jehovah's Witnesses came out of the 19th Century Adventist movement. Knowing what was common or typical beliefs among 19th Century Adventists would allow us deduce a lot about what Jehovah's Witnesses likely or probably believed, including their Arian Christology. When filling in these holes in our understanding, that background knowledge wouldn't always be right, of course, but it would help considerably.

And, I think you would have to agree, that it would be significantly more useful than looking at just the surviving Watchtower articles alone, and, when reading them, not giving consideration to what the English words meant at the time of the article's publication, but rather the root meaning of each word -- what it might have meant in, say, Old English or German -- and imposing those archaic definitions onto the text. That would all but guarantee we'd misunderstand what the authors of those Watchtower articles were trying to say.

That latter approach -- the one you outlined above for the Bible -- is often referred to as a word study fallacy.

Yes, words do have multiple meanings but if the bible writers wrote "stauros" and there is some ambiguity of what they meant, it is for scripture to settled the matter.

Let's look at some more scripture then.

First, though, let's consult the picture you posted earlier as illustrative of how you think Jesus was crucified.



Matthew adds this details about Jesus' crucifixion:

Over his head they put the charge against him, which read, "This is Jesus, the King of the Jews."

If Jesus was crucified on (just) a vertical pole, then the charge against him would not have been put over his "head," but over his hands, as your picture clearly illustrates. For the charge to be placed over his "head," he must have been crucified with a crossbeam, so on a "cross."

John recounts this detail:

So the other disciples told [Thomas], "We have seen the Lord." But he said to them, "Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands and put my finger in the mark of the nails and my hand in his side, I will not believe."

If Jesus was crucified on (just) a vertical pole, then there would have been only a single nail driven through his hands, as your picture also illustrates. But Thomas says there were "nails" (plural), which would be in keeping with crucifixion with a crossbeam, since the hands are separated and require two nails.

When we combine these details with the fact that the gospel writers tell us Jesus, after being scourged, was forced to carry a beam to his crucifixion -- which by all accounts would likely have been a crossbeam -- it seems to me the historical evidence is all pointing to Jesus being crucified on a cross.

Good post!

[JehovahsWitness]

Direct evidence always supersedes our background knowledge.

Then we not only understand each other but we agree.

The only point of contention is you do not believe there is enough internal information to come to a concusion on this matter and we do (at least to our satisfaction)

AMBIGUITY Where we see there is some internal ambuguity we will simply see if any other related matter or scriptural principle, tips the balance. If there is not we would maintain that the question is unsettled (since for us all questions of spiritual imports can only be settled with scripture ).

At the very most we will give a nod to the various fields if religious or secular though. ie. We would have no problem saying "scripture is not clear what instrument of execution Jesus died on, but secular thought is it was on a two piece cross bar"

That is not the case with "stauros" (we feel there is enough internal evidence to take a positive position) This is not a word study fallacy it's more akin to your analogy with the adventist movements relation to Jehovah's Witnesses ' - its s background analysis.

The Christian writers directly quoted from Hebrew scripture. The Septuagint sheds light on how the original language was rendered in Greek. The execution of Christ was paralleled by them to Jewish law ( as well as to other Hebrew symbols), so the death if Christ on an upright pole is presented as a fulfillment of Hebrew prophecy.

At least with your "over his head" and "nail count" comments you are presenting an analysis of the textual information. I don't agree with your interpretation but thats fine, the point is you understand why we hold that scriptural evidence always supersedes background knowledge or even (for us) direct historical statements. (For example if Josephus said something but Luke said the exact opposite, we are going to believe Luke). And perhaps you can understand (whether you agree or not) why the above us not cumulative (so Luke would trump Josephus plus Pliny older and younger)

JW


PS Don't get get me wrong I love history, and I absolutely adore learning about background - why else would I have spent an afternoon learning about the stress load of various types of wood, but in the end I believe all scripture is inspired of God and provides enough information to settle matters of import.

[historia]

The only point of contention is you do not believe there is enough internal information to come to a concusion on this matter and we do (at least to our satisfaction)

That's actually not my position. My position is that both our background knowledge and the direct evidence indicate that Jesus was most likely crucified on a cross.

At least with your "over his head" and "nail count" comments you are presenting an analysis of the textual information.

Indeed, as you will recall, I said we had to first discuss methodology and our background knowledge before we started to analyze the direct evidence, which I was going to come back to. Having exhausted those first two points in my earlier posts, I started to get into some of the details of the direct evidence in my last one.

There's more we can look at, too, including some useful information in the Epistle of Barnabas, a late-1st Century non-canonical Christian source.

[JehovahsWitness]

, as you will recall, I said we had to first discuss methodology and our background knowledge before we started to analyze the direct evidence, ...

Yes and I presume that is because your methodology presumes a cumulative effect of said background information useful especially in the event if ambiguity ; I hope my post #52 above has clarified my position on that (I've done some editing )



JW

[placebofactor]

, as you will recall, I said we had to first discuss methodology and our background knowledge before we started to analyze the direct evidence, ...

Yes and I presume that is because your methodology presumes a cumulative effect of said background information. I hope my post #52 above has clarified my position on that (I've done some editing )



JW

J.W., you continue to ask for evidence. You remind me of a person who's looking for a pencil that's on his ear. The evidence is so clear, but your indoctrination on the subject appears to have blinded you. Weight, it's all about the weight of this so-called pole you claim the Lord was to carry to the place of crucifixion. Minimum, even if we deduct 100 Lbs. from what it has been estimated to be; 14 to 15 feet in length x minimum 9" wide, the width of a telephone pole, 300 Lbs. The phone company uses trucks with cranes to lift these poles, and you're arguing a man weighing 150 lbs having been beaten half to death, having a loss of blood still can carry a 300 Lb. pole half a mile? Even a healthy man weighing 280 Lbs. who goes to the gym every day and eats healthy couldn't accomplish that task. That's nuts!

There's your evidence. Your insistence on this matter is mind-boggling. Even one of your brothers conceded the matter.

[placebofactor]

The Crucifixion:
I wrote the following some 25 years ago. I do not recall the name of the doctor who did the research concerning the human body when put through the torture of crucifixion. But I remember how it moved me. We read casually about the punishment and crucifixion, not fully getting the impact and degree of suffering.

The Persians between 539 B.C. and 335 B.C. were the inventors of the Crucifixion. They tied their victims to a single stake and left them there to die a slow and agonizing death. Eventually, around 100 B.C., the Romans picked up on this form of torture and death, then brought it to a new level of pain and eventual death. The word ‘excruciating’ did not exist until Christ was crucified. Excruciating interpreted means, “Pain out of the cross.”

Jesus' suffering began in earnest at Gethsemane. It was the day before the Jewish Passover, in early April of 31 A.D. Luke 22:44, “And being in agony he (Jesus) prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood.” because blood may have been mixed with his sweat, he would have been under great physiological stress.

He was then blindfolded and then taken to the high priest’s palace where he was falsely accused of blasphemy, spit on, and beaten. He was then taken to Pilate, and here was Pilate’s offer to the people.
Matthew 27:17, “Who will you that I release unto you? Barabbas or Jesus which is called Christ? And the crowd answered “Barabbas.” They also cried out, “Let his blood be on us, and on our children.”

Barabbas means “son of the Father.” The people called for the “son of God, so they called for Barabbas. The Roman soldiers mocked him, stripped him, put a scarlet robe on him, then made a crown of thorns and placed it on his head. The thorns that grow in that area are two inches in length. The soldiers would have pressed the thorns down on his head cutting deeply into the flesh. They then bowed down mocking him, saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!”

Isaiah gives further details concerning Jesus' punishment. Isaiah 53:3, He was despised, rejected,” --- Verse 4, “Surely he hath born our griefs and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten”--- wounded, bruised, and “with his stripes” we are healed.”

The Roman whip consists of three braided pieces of rawhide, attached to a round wooden handle, the last 12 inches were not braided. At the ends of the three lashes were tied pieces of sheep bone and iron lead balls. The iron balls would cause deep contusions in the skin tissue, and the bone would cause deep lacerations in the skin, tendons, and muscles under the skin.

The victim was tied to a post, and the Roman soldier doing the lashing would whip the upper back and work their way down the legs. He would move to the other side and repeat his work. When finished, there would be deep cuts and trauma to the back and legs. The blood loss would be significant, causing a significant drop in his blood pressure. Normally 39 lashes were required by law, but the Romans were not obligated to Jewish law, and depending on their mood no count was necessary.

The crossbeam Jesus carried is estimated to weigh 75 to 100 lbs. When they arrived where the sentence was to be carried out, the crossbeam was nailed to the vertical beam that lay on the ground. He was then laid down on top of the vertical beam his arms in a horizontal position before being nailed to it. The nails used were about 6” long and ¼ inch square. They were driven into the wrist just below the carpal bones, considered part of the hand back then. The nails crushed the median nerve and carpal tunnel causing a great deal of excruciating pain. Then the feet were nailed down into the vertical beam. But before they were nailed down, the knees would have to be bent to bring the feet down flat on the beam. The driven nail would crush the medial plantar nerve causing great pain throughout his body.

When finished, the vertical beam was lifted and set in place. When this happened, the weight of Jesus' body would be pulled downward, placing a great deal of pressure on the elbow and shoulder joints, as well as the nails in his feet being driven up into the bones of the feet. It is estimated that the load on his elbow and shoulder joints was between 150 to 200 lbs. on each arm. This would cause the bones of his joints to separate, lengthening his arms six inches. What prevented the arms from tearing off were the tendons and muscles.

In this position, breathing out was much more difficult than breathing in. To exhale, the Lord had to push down on the nails holding his feet to the beam to raise himself. Each time he would make this move, the open flesh on his back would rub up and down on the beam.

Eventually, in his condition, the blood became filled with carbon dioxide causing him to suffocate. Also, from the loss of blood, he would become very thirsty as his tongue would cleave to the roof of his mouth. Due to the loss of blood, he would go into bulimic shock and eventually die of heart failure.

The Roman guard then plunged a spear into the right side of his heart causing blood and water to come out through the wound, proving that he was dead. If he had been alive, they would have broken both of his legs.
So, the next time you look at, or speak of the man hanging from the cross, understand fully what he suffered for every one of us. Also, have you ever considered how the Lord feels when we fail him in words, deeds, motives, and love?

Found the following on the Internet. Biblical archeology proves the Scriptures to be true and accurate.

"Doubting Thomas" traveled farther than any other apostle. While the New Testament tells of his skepticism turned to faith, ancient traditions describe his incredible journey east. Church records claim Thomas sailed to Persia and India, establishing the world's first Christian communities outside the Roman Empire. The San Thome Basilica in Chennai, India, stands over what many believe is his tomb. Local traditions tell how he converted Indian royalty before dying as a martyr. Archaeologists have found crosses, coins, and building foundations that support these ancient stories. These discoveries help confirm that Thomas really did bring Christianity to the subcontinent.

Stories of Bartholomew, one of Jesus's twelve apostles, come from places across Asia and Africa. In Armenia, you can still see the ruins of Saint Bartholomew Monastery at Vaspurakan, which locals say marks where he died for his faith. Archaeological digs along India's Konkan coast, especially near Kalyan, have turned up old Christian symbols like the St. Thomas Cross, suggesting Bartholomew might have started Christian communities there.

Archaeological findings give strong context for Jesus's life in first-century Judea. The Pilate Stone, found in 1961 at Caesarea Maritima, confirms that Pontius Pilate really ruled as Roman prefect of Judea, the same man who, according to the Gospels, ordered Jesus's execution. A limestone block called the Magdala Stone, discovered in 2009 near the Sea of Galilee, shows carved Jewish symbols from a synagogue where Jesus might have taught. In Jerusalem, archaeologists uncovered the Pool of Siloam mentioned in John's Gospel, while in Nazareth, they found houses from the exact time Jesus lived there. Physical proof of Roman crucifixion practices came from a shocking discovery in Jerusalem: a man's heel bone with a nail still driven through it from around Jesus's time. The famous James Ossuary bears an inscription mentioning "Jesus's brother." Finally, in a letter to Emperor Trajan, Roman governor Pliny the Younger wrote about early Christians singing "hymns to Christ as to God.

[onewithhim]

The word translated in scriptures by many as "CROSS" is actually the Greek word "stauros". Greek: stauros (torture) stake; xylon: stake/log; Latin crux: upright stake*.

• There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary [stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together in the form of a cross. . . . --The Non-Christian Cross, by J. D. Parsons (London, 1896)

• The bible uses the word "Xylon" which simply means "timber, and by implication a stick, club or tree or other wooden article or substance--The Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Strong.

• Jesus died on a simple deathstake: In support of this there speak (a) the then customary usage of this means of execution in the Orient, (b) indirectly the history itself of Jesus' sufferings and (c) many expressions of the early Church fathers. ---The Cross and Crucifixion, Hermann Fulda.
  
  • "STAUROS....denotes, primarily, an upright pale or stake. On such malefactors ware nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, to fasten to a stake or pale, are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed cross." - --Vines Complete Expository Dictionary o[/i]f Old and New Testament Words s:
  Although the ROMANS did uses crosses it was not commonly used until later periods.
  
  • "Even amoungst the Romans the crux{Latin from which our cross is derived}appears to originally been an upright pole". -- The Imperial Bible-Dictionary
  JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
  
  FURTHER READING
  https://louvrebible.org.uk/consultation/47

Sorry, wrong again.

QUESTION #1. Which of the specific published quoted references above are inaccurate?

QUESTION #2. Can you provide peer reviewed published documentation in supoort of your response to question #1?

Your whole premise is that Jesus died on a "death stake." Another phrase made to order for the Witnesses. According to you, I would be correct in saying Jesus died on a club or a stick. That's your definition of what a Roman cross is. Jesus carried the cross beam of his "death stake." Then Simon was told to carry it. The other part of his "death stake" was waiting for him when they reached Calvary." The two "death stakes were made to look like a T or a cross. His hands were stretched out on the horizontal beam and his feet nailed to the vertical pole. Check any encyclopedia or go to the Internet and ask, "How did the Romans crucify their enemies?"

We say "torture stake," or just "stake." I don't think that Jesus carried the "cross-beam." He carried the whole stake. You must think of him as a weakling, but I realize that he was a strong man that could have dragged the stake. Yet because of no sleep or water or food he was undoubtedly weakened from that and couldn't keep on. The cross-beam would have been a cinch to carry, not requiring much help from anyone. But the stake was quite heavy, even though under normal circumstances He could've carried it. I've seen my brother carry railroad ties under each arm like they were nothing. Imagine what Jesus could do if he hadn't been beaten to within an inch of his life.

[placebofactor]

The word translated in scriptures by many as "CROSS" is actually the Greek word "stauros". Greek: stauros (torture) stake; xylon: stake/log; Latin crux: upright stake*.

• There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary [stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together in the form of a cross. . . . --The Non-Christian Cross, by J. D. Parsons (London, 1896)

• The bible uses the word "Xylon" which simply means "timber, and by implication a stick, club or tree or other wooden article or substance--The Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Strong.

• Jesus died on a simple deathstake: In support of this there speak (a) the then customary usage of this means of execution in the Orient, (b) indirectly the history itself of Jesus' sufferings and (c) many expressions of the early Church fathers. ---The Cross and Crucifixion, Hermann Fulda.
  
  • "STAUROS....denotes, primarily, an upright pale or stake. On such malefactors ware nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, to fasten to a stake or pale, are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed cross." - --Vines Complete Expository Dictionary o[/i]f Old and New Testament Words s:
  Although the ROMANS did uses crosses it was not commonly used until later periods.
  
  • "Even amoungst the Romans the crux{Latin from which our cross is derived}appears to originally been an upright pole". -- The Imperial Bible-Dictionary
  JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
  
  FURTHER READING
  https://louvrebible.org.uk/consultation/47

Sorry, wrong again.

QUESTION #1. Which of the specific published quoted references above are inaccurate?

QUESTION #2. Can you provide peer reviewed published documentation in supoort of your response to question #1?

Your whole premise is that Jesus died on a "death stake." Another phrase made to order for the Witnesses. According to you, I would be correct in saying Jesus died on a club or a stick. That's your definition of what a Roman cross is. Jesus carried the cross beam of his "death stake." Then Simon was told to carry it. The other part of his "death stake" was waiting for him when they reached Calvary." The two "death stakes were made to look like a T or a cross. His hands were stretched out on the horizontal beam and his feet nailed to the vertical pole. Check any encyclopedia or go to the Internet and ask, "How did the Romans crucify their enemies?"

We say "torture stake," or just "stake." I don't think that Jesus carried the "cross-beam." He carried the whole stake. You must think of him as a weakling, but I realize that he was a strong man that could have dragged the stake. Yet because of no sleep or water or food he was undoubtedly weakened from that and couldn't keep on. The cross-beam would have been a cinch to carry, not requiring much help from anyone. But the stake was quite heavy, even though under normal circumstances He could've carried it. I've seen my brother carry railroad ties under each arm like they were nothing. Imagine what Jesus could do if he hadn't been beaten to within an inch of his life.

There was no word for cross in the ancient Hebrew language.
staurós – the crosspiece of a Roman cross; the cross-beam (Latin, patibulum) placed at the top of the vertical member to form a capital "T." "This transverse beam was the one carried by the criminal" (Souter).

Christ was crucified on a literal Roman cross (4716 /staurós). 4716 /staurós ("cross") is also used figuratively for the cross (sacrifice)

Deuteronomy 21:22, "If a man committed a sin worthy of death, and he is put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but you shall in any wise bury him that day; that your land be not defiled, which the LORD the God giveth thee for an inheritance."

We know Jesus could not carry a tree, so what he must have carried, was the crossbeam.

[JehovahsWitness]

Deuteronomy 21:22, "If a man committed a sin worthy of death, and he is put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but you shall in any wise bury him that day; that your land be not defiled, which the LORD the God giveth thee for an inheritance."
.

EZRA 6:11 - King James Version

Also I have made a decree, that whosoever shall alter this word, let timber [Aramaic ’a‘, corresponding to the Hebrew term ‛ets, ] be pulled down from his house, and being set up, let him be hanged thereon; and let his house be made a dunghill for this

Source STRONGS #6086 : https://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebib ... .htm#S6086



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS



RELATED POSTS

Could Jesus have carried a full length beam of wood strong enough to hold his weight in execution?
viewtopic.php?p=1162816#p1162816

Does the Hebrew word `ets have to refer to a literal tree?
viewtopic.php?p=1164454#p1164454

[placebofactor]

Deuteronomy 21:22, "If a man committed a sin worthy of death, and he is put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but you shall in any wise bury him that day; that your land be not defiled, which the LORD the God giveth thee for an inheritance."
.

EZRA 6:11 - King James Version

Also I have made a decree, that whosoever shall alter this word, let timber [Aramaic ’a‘, corresponding to the Hebrew term ‛ets, ] be pulled down from his house, and being set up, let him be hanged thereon; and let his house be made a dunghill for this

Source STRONGS #6086 : https://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebib ... .htm#S6086



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

Okay, Jesus carried a 15-foot pole weighing between 200 to 300 lbs. one-half mile, over rough terrain. Someone dug a hole, put the pole into the hole then backfilled it so it would remain steady and upright. Then they lifted him up, climbed a 10-foot ladder to nail his hands. Then lifted his feet so they were flat on the pole and put a nail through both feet.

Now if you claim they nailed him to this pole before they put it in the hole, I have to ask you, have you ever seen the down-force a 200 or 300 lb. pole when dropped into a four-foot hole? Boom! It would have ripped Jesus' arms off. Then it would have had to be steadied by two men and backfilled by a third man. By the time they finished, Jesus would have been either dead or unconscious.

There were no augers back then to dig holes straight down, 9 inches at the top and 9' at the bottom, and no machines to lift the weight of the pole and the dead weight of a person hanging on it. Not a dead person, but dead weight. A four-foot-deep hole in the ground to accommodate a 15-foot pole, 9" wide would be at least, 2 feet wide at its top if dug with a shovel. To steady it, three-foot stakes would have to be driven into the backfill on all four sides of the pole to steady it.





Could Jesus have carried a full length beam of wood strong enough to hold his weight in execution?
viewtopic.php?p=1162816#p1162816

Does the Hebrew word `ets have to refer to a literal tree?
viewtopic.php?p=1164454#p1164454