What really happened in the garden of Eden.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Sun May 22, 2016 9:32 am

One of the most distorted events in human history, is the events in Eden and what really happened there. The common perception is that God created Adam and Eve, trained them and taught them and gave them his Holy Spirit: they then had to face satan, as the devil sneeked into Eden and totally messed up the heads of Adam and Eve and thus they failed some kind of test from God, and were thrown out of the garden. And this is erroneously called " The Fall."

I disagree with so much of these religious assumptions. First, there is absolutely no evidence that God gave Adam and Eve his Spirit, or that he prepared them for this " Contest" with satan. The young couple were left totally defenseless and they had absolutely no chance whatsoever against the serpent. The serpent did not sneak into the garden, he could only gain access from God himself, so God planned the event.

In Gen. 1:27, God gives Adam and Eve " Consciousness", which is what " The Image of God " means. The image of God is not anything physical. In Gen. 2:16 God commands that the couple not eat of a tree he created that contained the knowledge of Good and Evil", from that we can know that Adam and Eve had no knowledge of either good or evil, to this point. Now in Gen. 3:1 we can see that the serpent , or satan, was created by God, because he was MORE subtil, MORE deceptive than any OTHER beast THAT GOD HAD MADE! So God MADE him that way.

Then we now have satan inside of the garden of Eden ,we MUST assume that God planned on him being there. So satan was " More", in other words, more powerful than any other creation on earth. Now we have in verse 1, satan begins his deception. He goes directly to Eve, Adam stands by and does nothing, because he did not know anythingelse to do. The serpent does his thing, the young couple does what God commanded them not to do. And God knew this would happen, and God did absolutely nothing to help them, and that must be remembered and understood.

In Gen. 3:7 it clearly states that " The EYES of both of them were OPENED!" This does not mean they were physically blind before this seduction, it means they were SPIRITUALLY blind!! They did NOT have the Spirit of God or any spiritual training. They were CLOSED before this happened; they could NOT see before this event, they were spiritually BLIND!

What do you think will happen when God sends the most seductive, subtle, powerful being on earth to face a spiritually blind couple? Its academic, but totally misunderstood by religion.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:13 pm

What really happened in the garden of Eden, like all true knowledge, is just lost in this world.

Religion rules for now.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:00 am

You must understand that things, important events, happen because God wants them to happen. What happened in Eden was exactly what God wanted to happen.

Listen; IF anything happens that God does want to happen, then whatever that thing was, it had to be far stronger than God.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:40 pm

mickiel wrote: You must understand that things, important events, happen because God wants them to happen. What happened in Eden was exactly what God wanted to happen.

Listen; IF anything happens that God does want to happen, then whatever that thing was, it had to be far stronger than God.

In formal terms you are elevating HIS sovereignty above our free will. Since it ends in blasphemy, this supposition is rejected by considering that our free will was more important than HIS will forcing us to choose only one way so HE held HIS sovereignty in abeyance till our choices were made.

IF HIS sovereignty means HE can do whatever HE wants to do then by HIS sovereign decree HE can let us act outside of HIS sovereignty by our free will... This is how HE allowed HIS creation to create evil without creating it HIMself, a blasphemy.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 5:23 pm

The greatest blasphemy in scripture that I have ever read, is how Christianity is deceiving the world, and using Jesus and the bible to do it. From Jesus own teachings in Matthews 24:5, " For MANY shall come in MY NAME, ( or Christians), saying that I am Christ, and deceive MANY."

Here Jesus is teaching that a lot of believers are going to come in his name, ( meaning Christians, the largest religion on earth that is actually in Jesus name), and fool a whole lot of people. How? Well through their false teachings! Actual believers and followers of Jesus, doing everything in Jesus name, and just deceiving MANY!

I see them doing it on every website like this one; and they are fooling this world and deceiving it with an incredible ease.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:20 pm

mickiel wrote: The greatest blasphemy in scripture that I have ever read, is how Christianity is deceiving the world, and using Jesus and the bible to do it. From Jesus own teachings in Matthews 24:5, " For MANY shall come in MY NAME, ( or Christians), saying that I am Christ, and deceive MANY."

Here Jesus is teaching that a lot of believers are going to come in his name, ( meaning Christians, the largest religion on earth that is actually in Jesus name), and fool a whole lot of people. How? Well through their false teachings! Actual believers and followers of Jesus, doing everything in Jesus name, and just deceiving MANY!

I see them doing it on every website like this one; and they are fooling this world and deceiving it with an incredible ease.

Does this mean you are avoiding the logic of post #63?

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:25 pm

[Replying to ttruscott]

I avoid the logic of Christianity period.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:39 am

mickiel wrote: [Replying to ttruscott]

I avoid the logic of Christianity period.

Christianity misunderstands the very first recorded event in the bible, why people think they can explain the rest of it is just a mystery to me.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:53 am

What really happened in the garden of Eden was a predetermined orchestrated event ; it was not left up to Adam and Eve to determine the outcome ; the outcome was the only course of action that God wanted. It prepared the way for Christ , or the " Need" for him to come.

dio9 · Post by **dio9** » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:20 pm

[Replying to post 68 by mickiel]

The garden story shows why we suffer , the cause of our suffering, and the way to end our suffering.
However why we suffer is wrapped in the symbolism of the fruit and the two trees.

Please expand on why you think we we suffer so Jesus can save us?

Strider324 · Post by **Strider324** » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:35 pm

JLB32168 wrote:
mickiel wrote:In Gen. 3:5 we again see that Adam and Eve were spiritually blind BEFORE they confronted satan, and satan KNEW they were blind to his deceptions; " For God KNOWS that the day you eat, your eyes shall be opened and THEN you will know the difference between good and evil."
It is inconsistent with being created in Godâ€™s Image and Likeness would entail spiritual blindness. Judaism doesnâ€™t teach that Adam and Eve were spiritually oblivious and neither does Eastern Orthodox Christianity. It teaches that Adam and Eve only lacked the fullness of the knowledge of good and evil. They possessed the ability to deliberate between good and evil and that is why they are responsible for their poor choices.

They had the pricking of conscience at being tempted to disobey and they didnâ€™t heed the image and likeness in which they were created.

Why should I care what Any church teaches? I've read the bible. It clearly says there was a tree that contained the knowledge of good and evil. Not some knowledge - all knowledge. Therefore the only scriptural truth is that A&E had no morality or ability to discern right from wrong whatsoever.

Your church and all others can ignore that and apply whatever convenient perversion of actual scripture they wish. I get it. Ridiculous bible stories, once exposed, were the genesis of apologetics. None of that changes the truth of their ridiculousness. It simply created an industry for apologists.

I note that no one that tells the truth has ever needed to invent separate realities or 'apologize'... Just sayin'.