Evangelicals vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

[Elijah John]

Evangelicals often call Jehovah's Witnesses, a "cult" and not Christian.

Jehovah's Witnesses, seem to consider Roman Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox etc, "not-Christian" (JWs please correct me if I'm wrong on this)

Question for debate, why can't all of these groups rightly be considered "Christian"?

And part two of this OP question is directed primarily to Evangelicals, why don't you consider JWs to be Christian?

[2timothy316]

OK, the topic is going somewhat afield of what I envisioned. I realize that Evangelicals vs Jehovah's Witnesses differ on points of doctrine, well beyond the nature of Jesus in relation to God.

Seems we are getting bogged down with arguments about the details end-times and the afterlife.

But what I'm really wondering:

Evangelicals: Do you believe JW's are doomed to hell because they differ on these matters from your point of view?

And Jehovah's Witnesses: Do you believe Evangelicals are doomed to the eternal grave because they differ with you on these matters?

If either camp answers "yes", how do we determine who is right?

Speaking as a JW our answer is No. This question is even answered on our website.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/who-saved/

Think of all of those mislead for over 1000 years by false doctrine...should they perish forever for it? Of course not. Even those living today that might see the Great Day of Jehovah, we as JWs don't know a person's heart and how far they truly come to follow Jehovah. As the website says, "its not our job to judge who will or wont be saved. That assignment rests squarely in Jesus hands."John 5:22, 27." And that is the truth.

[Elijah John]

OK, the topic is going somewhat afield of what I envisioned. I realize that Evangelicals vs Jehovah's Witnesses differ on points of doctrine, well beyond the nature of Jesus in relation to God.

Seems we are getting bogged down with arguments about the details end-times and the afterlife.

But what I'm really wondering:

Evangelicals: Do you believe JW's are doomed to hell because they differ on these matters from your point of view?

And Jehovah's Witnesses: Do you believe Evangelicals are doomed to the eternal grave because they differ with you on these matters?

If either camp answers "yes", how do we determine who is right?

Speaking as a JW our answer is No. This question is even answered on our website.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/who-saved/

Think of all of those mislead for over 1000 years by false doctrine...should they perish forever for it? Of course not. Even those living today that might see the Great Day of Jehovah, we as JWs don't know a person's heart and how far they truly come to follow Jehovah. As the website says, "its not our job to judge who will or wont be saved. That assignment rests squarely in Jesus hands."John 5:22, 27." And that is the truth.

I think I recall that either JW or onewithhim gave a similar answer. That is refreshing, that you folks don't automatically consign others to "hell" the eternal grave, but leave the "escape hatch" in the hands of Jesus.

My guess it that Evangelicals take a harder position, but I realize Evangelicals may differ on this as well.

Some take the position that if anyone preaches a "different Gospel" they will be cursed, presumably to hell.

Others I think would admit that only God knows the heart. (correct me if I'm wrong on this)

[2timothy316]

JWs believe that only the 144.000 are the Anointed ones, and only they will go to heaven, But that isn't scriptural, YOU DON'T FIND IT IN THE BIBLE.

Is the following scripture not in your Bible? Is that why you keeping calling it unscriptural?

"And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. Rev 14:3

It even says where these 144,000 come from. The Earth. Please tell me you see this scripture.

Are you confusing the term unscriptural with going against your doctrine? Just because something goes against your doctrine doesn't mean not in the Bible. The number of people bought from the Earth is 144,000. If you want to know what JW really teach and can go any further you must understand that the number 144,000 is from the Bible and saying that it's not is truly is false. Once you accept there is a number in the Bible of 144,000 then we can find out how to identify who these are using the Bible. If you reject this number is from the Bible then I have nothing else to show you.

What I said isn't scriptural, is, Only the 144.0000 wil,go to heaven. I didn't say the 144.000 won't go to heaven.
It's not me who is going against the Biblical doctrines, It's you, because you say only the 144.000 go to heaven, yet Rev 6: 9 and Rev 7: 9--15, proves you wrong.

If you notice, Rev 6: 9, and Rev 7: 14, You'll see that they came from the earth as well.

Plus The 144.000 aren't in the Church age, they come in the great tribulation period, as do those in
Rev 6: 9 and Rev 7: 9--15.
I'm not rejecting the fact that there will be 144.000, I'm rejecting the teaching that they are the only ones who go to heaven.

So are the 144,000 bought from the Earth or not? Who are the 144,000 and why does the Bible say that these specifically are bought from the Earth? Though you say the Bible says the 'Great Crowd' is bought from the Earth, the Bible actually doesn't say that.

[Saved75]

There is something that has always puzzled me about people that reject what the Bible says about people living on Earth forever. Do they hate the idea of a paradise like Adam and Eve once had? Being able to be close to God, His Son and all the angels yet still be human? No sickness, death, war, struggle and ageless bodies? What is so bad about this? What is that they want out of Heaven that life on Earth can't provide?

The JWS reject what the Bible says, as I have proved to you.
eventually everyone (Every Christian ) will live on the earth, as a new heaven and earth comes down, and in the midst of the new earth, will be God's throne.

[2timothy316]

There is something that has always puzzled me about people that reject what the Bible says about people living on Earth forever. Do they hate the idea of a paradise like Adam and Eve once had? Being able to be close to God, His Son and all the angels yet still be human? No sickness, death, war, struggle and ageless bodies? What is so bad about this? What is that they want out of Heaven that life on Earth can't provide?

The JWS reject what the Bible says, as I have proved to you.
eventually everyone (Every Christian ) will live on the earth, as a new heaven and earth comes down, and in the midst of the new earth, will be God's throne.

I have seen no proof, only dogmatism. As you have given no explanation of Rev 14:3 or just completely ignore it.

Funny thing is, I have been told that JWs follow the Bible too much...lol.

[Saved75]

JWs believe that only the 144.000 are the Anointed ones, and only they will go to heaven, But that isn't scriptural, YOU DON'T FIND IT IN THE BIBLE.

Is the following scripture not in your Bible? Is that why you keeping calling it unscriptural?

"And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. Rev 14:3

It even says where these 144,000 come from. The Earth. Please tell me you see this scripture.

Are you confusing the term unscriptural with going against your doctrine? Just because something goes against your doctrine doesn't mean not in the Bible. The number of people bought from the Earth is 144,000. If you want to know what JW really teach and can go any further you must understand that the number 144,000 is from the Bible and saying that it's not is truly is false. Once you accept there is a number in the Bible of 144,000 then we can find out how to identify who these are using the Bible. If you reject this number is from the Bible then I have nothing else to show you.

What I said isn't scriptural, is, Only the 144.0000 wil,go to heaven. I didn't say the 144.000 won't go to heaven.
It's not me who is going against the Biblical doctrines, It's you, because you say only the 144.000 go to heaven, yet Rev 6: 9 and Rev 7: 9--15, proves you wrong.

If you notice, Rev 6: 9, and Rev 7: 14, You'll see that they came from the earth as well.

Plus The 144.000 aren't in the Church age, they come in the great tribulation period, as do those in
Rev 6: 9 and Rev 7: 9--15.
I'm not rejecting the fact that there will be 144.000, I'm rejecting the teaching that they are the only ones who go to heaven.

So are the 144,000 bought from the Earth or not? Who are the 144,000 and why does the Bible say that these specifically are bought from the Earth? Though you say the Bible says the 'Great Crowd' is bought from the Earth, the Bible actually doesn't say that.

I never said that the 144.000 wouldn't come from the earth Whatever gave you that idea???.
Greek Bible scholars believe that the 144.000 are all evangelists that God gives to preach the gospel to those in the tribulation period.

Rev 6: 9 and Rev 7: 14, says those in heaven, we're killed ON THE EARTH during the great tribulation period. Where do you think they came from??? The Moon.
please note, I give scriptures, whereas you give your opinions with no scriptures to back up what you say. And the scriptures that you do give, You twist them.

[2timothy316]

There is something that has always puzzled me about people that reject what the Bible says about people living on Earth forever. Do they hate the idea of a paradise like Adam and Eve once had? Being able to be close to God, His Son and all the angels yet still be human? No sickness, death, war, struggle and ageless bodies? What is so bad about this? What is that they want out of Heaven that life on Earth can't provide?

The JWS reject what the Bible says, as I have proved to you.
eventually everyone (Every Christian ) will live on the earth, as a new heaven and earth comes down, and in the midst of the new earth, will be God's throne.

I also noticed you changed the Earth to Heaven with a little bit of word juggling. 'As a new Heaven'? Are you trying to make Heaven and Earth same place?

[Saved75]

There is something that has always puzzled me about people that reject what the Bible says about people living on Earth forever. Do they hate the idea of a paradise like Adam and Eve once had? Being able to be close to God, His Son and all the angels yet still be human? No sickness, death, war, struggle and ageless bodies? What is so bad about this? What is that they want out of Heaven that life on Earth can't provide?

The JWS reject what the Bible says, as I have proved to you.
eventually everyone (Every Christian ) will live on the earth, as a new heaven and earth comes down, and in the midst of the new earth, will be God's throne.

I have seen no proof, only dogmatism. As you have given no explanation of Rev 14:3 or just completely ignore it.

Funny thing is, I have been told that JWs follow the Bible too much...lol.

If you want proof of the Biblical truths, just read the Bible. And stop twisting it.

What about Rev 14: 3???.
What about Rev 14: 4,They are all Jewish male virgins.

[2timothy316]

I never said that the 144.000 wouldn't come from the earth Whatever gave you that idea???.
Greek Bible scholars believe that the 144.000 are all evangelists that God gives to preach the gospel to those in the tribulation period.

Rev 6: 9 and Rev 7: 14, says those in heaven, we're killed ON THE EARTH during the great tribulation period. Where do you think they came from??? The Moon.
please note, I give scriptures, whereas you give your opinions with no scriptures to back up what you say. And the scriptures that you do give, You twist them.

Rev the whole chapter 14 is disagreeing with you. Not to mention Rev 21:1. New Heavens and New Earth. These are not the same place.

[Saved75]

There is something that has always puzzled me about people that reject what the Bible says about people living on Earth forever. Do they hate the idea of a paradise like Adam and Eve once had? Being able to be close to God, His Son and all the angels yet still be human? No sickness, death, war, struggle and ageless bodies? What is so bad about this? What is that they want out of Heaven that life on Earth can't provide?

The JWS reject what the Bible says, as I have proved to you.
eventually everyone (Every Christian ) will live on the earth, as a new heaven and earth comes down, and in the midst of the new earth, will be God's throne.

I also noticed you changed the Earth to Heaven with a little bit of word juggling. 'As a new Heaven'? Are you trying to make Heaven and Earth same place?

If you believed the Bible , instead of twisting it, you would accept the fact that a new heaven and a new earth a d the Holy city, the new Jerusalem coming down to earth, Rev 21: 1--3. & v 10--27.
Why don't you ever believe what the Bible says, rather than your own opinions? ?.