Equality between the Father and Son

[placebofactor]

Did the Father have the power to raise or elevate his Son Jesus to the same rank as himself? Let us call the highest rank in heaven "the rank of God."

Hebrews 1:8, The Father said of his Son Jesus, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." Verse 9, "Therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of Gladness above thy fellows." Verse 10, "And thou LORD (the Father calling his Son Jehovah), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the works of your hands."

And is there the same degree of likeness, similarity, and dignity between the Father and Son? If so, then the Son can be called God because it's the Father's prerogative. And if it is the Father's privilege, who are we to deny it?

[NeutralZone]

You make it appear that the Father and Son are competing over who is greater.
You wrote, "If that's your proof that scripture says Jesus the son is equal to Jehovah the Father and Jesus is God, I've got news for you, placebofactor. The words "Your throne, O God" and everything that is part of that sentence is a quotation taken from the book of Psalm. Everything within that quotation from Psalm applies to Jehovah the Father.

placebofactor:

There's no need for me to, as you put it: "make it appear that the Father and Son are competing over who is greater." Jesus himself said it.

John 14:28
You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming back to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.

The Father's relationship with his Son is a matter between them, it's no concern of ours. What matters to us, is our relationship with Jesus, nothing else. And as far as I can see, we had better honor him as we would honor the Father. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit. He is our Redeemer, He is our Mediator, He gave his life for us, He will be our Judge, and He will be our husband. These are the things you need to consider, nothing more. You know what happens when a wife belittles her husband, sort of like how you downgrade your future husband: Divorce! You know what happened to the Jews when the LORD Jesus divorced them? REJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, it is our concern, placebofactor. Very much so. Jesus Christ, who established Christianity, made it abundantly clear that his followers must take in accurate knowledge of Jehovah the Father and of Jesus Christ the Son. Without accurate knowledge, people end up worshipping Christendom's non-existent 3-in-1 god that is found nowhere in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. The result? They lose out on everlasting life. Below is what Jesus said in prayer to his heavenly father, Almighty God Jehovah.

John 17:3
This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

[placebofactor]

You make it appear that the Father and Son are competing over who is greater.
You wrote, "If that's your proof that scripture says Jesus the son is equal to Jehovah the Father and Jesus is God, I've got news for you, placebofactor. The words "Your throne, O God" and everything that is part of that sentence is a quotation taken from the book of Psalm. Everything within that quotation from Psalm applies to Jehovah the Father.

placebofactor:

There's no need for me to, as you put it: "make it appear that the Father and Son are competing over who is greater." Jesus himself said it.

John 14:28
You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming back to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.

The Father's relationship with his Son is a matter between them, it's no concern of ours. What matters to us, is our relationship with Jesus, nothing else. And as far as I can see, we had better honor him as we would honor the Father. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit. He is our Redeemer, He is our Mediator, He gave his life for us, He will be our Judge, and He will be our husband. These are the things you need to consider, nothing more. You know what happens when a wife belittles her husband, sort of like how you downgrade your future husband: Divorce! You know what happened to the Jews when the LORD Jesus divorced them? REJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, it is our concern, placebofactor. Very much so. Jesus Christ, who established Christianity, made it abundantly clear that his followers must take in accurate knowledge of Jehovah the Father and of Jesus Christ the Son. Without accurate knowledge, people end up worshipping Christendom's non-existent 3-in-1 god that is found nowhere in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. The result? They lose out on everlasting life. Below is what Jesus said in prayer to his heavenly father, Almighty God Jehovah.

John 17:3
This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Explain to me what you think this 3 in 1 God means? I will wait for your response.

[NeutralZone]

The Father's relationship with his Son is a matter between them, it's no concern of ours. What matters to us, is our relationship with Jesus, nothing else. And as far as I can see, we had better honor him as we would honor the Father. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit. He is our Redeemer, He is our Mediator, He gave his life for us, He will be our Judge, and He will be our husband. These are the things you need to consider, nothing more. You know what happens when a wife belittles her husband, sort of like how you downgrade your future husband: Divorce! You know what happened to the Jews when the LORD Jesus divorced them? REJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, it is our concern, placebofactor. Very much so. Jesus Christ, who established Christianity, made it abundantly clear that his followers must take in accurate knowledge of Jehovah the Father and of Jesus Christ the Son. Without accurate knowledge, people end up worshipping Christendom's non-existent 3-in-1 god that is found nowhere in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. The result? They lose out on everlasting life. Below is what Jesus said in prayer to his heavenly father, Almighty God Jehovah.

John 17:3
This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Explain to me what you think this 3 in 1 God means? I will wait for your response.

Come on now, placebofactor. What else could I possibly be referring to besides Christendom's trinity god in which the Father (Jehovah), the Son (Jesus Christ) and Jehovah's Holy Spriit are supposedly three different persons who are co-equal and co-eternal and combined into a single god? In fact, you used part of the Trinitarian argument in the title of your thread when you claimed the Father and the Son are equal. Scripture says they are not.

[placebofactor]

The Father's relationship with his Son is a matter between them, it's no concern of ours. What matters to us, is our relationship with Jesus, nothing else. And as far as I can see, we had better honor him as we would honor the Father. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit. He is our Redeemer, He is our Mediator, He gave his life for us, He will be our Judge, and He will be our husband. These are the things you need to consider, nothing more. You know what happens when a wife belittles her husband, sort of like how you downgrade your future husband: Divorce! You know what happened to the Jews when the LORD Jesus divorced them? REJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, it is our concern, placebofactor. Very much so. Jesus Christ, who established Christianity, made it abundantly clear that his followers must take in accurate knowledge of Jehovah the Father and of Jesus Christ the Son. Without accurate knowledge, people end up worshipping Christendom's non-existent 3-in-1 god that is found nowhere in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. The result? They lose out on everlasting life. Below is what Jesus said in prayer to his heavenly father, Almighty God Jehovah.

John 17:3
This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Explain to me what you think this 3 in 1 God means? I will wait for your response.

Come on now, placebofactor. What else could I possibly be referring to besides Christendom's trinity god in which the Father (Jehovah), the Son (Jesus Christ) and Jehovah's Holy Spriit are supposedly three different persons who are co-equal and co-eternal and combined into a single god? In fact, you used part of the Trinitarian argument in the title of your thread when you claimed the Father and the Son are equal. Scripture says they are not.

The reason I ask is that there is another side to the 3-1. Some believe the Father is Jesus and is the Holy Spirit, but that's an incorrect teaching.

How I look at the Trinity is, there is the Father, who sent his Son, who sent the Holy Spirit. They are of one mind and one purpose, one end goal for us. The three make up the Godhead. If we as Christians want to know the Father, we had better know the Son.

In heaven, the Father is greater, but concerning the creation, Jesus is our Creator, thus our God. He is our Saviour, thus our God. He came out from Eternity to create, sent by the Father; therefore, he is God. He is our High Priest, thus our God, he is our Redeemer, thus our God, he is our Mediator, thus our God, he is our Husband, we are his bride, thus he is our God, he is our Rock, thus our God, he will gather us up in the rapture and bring us to where he prepared a place for us in heaven, thus he is our God. We will be with him for all eternity; thus, he is our Husband, our King, our High Priest, and our God, ALL TO THE GLORY OF HIS FATHER.

As for the personal relationship between the Father and Son, what we know is all they want us to know, after that, IT'S NONE OF OUR BUSINESS!! We don't even understand the things we fight against here on earth, the things of darkness.

What we know about their relationship in heavenly things and of the unseen things of this earth is but one drop of water in an ocean of water. Why? Because we're MORTALS. The most brilliant men in science have only begun to scratch the surface of how things came into existence from nothing, and how things are held together and work to keep you and me breathing, and this earth from floating off into a black hole.

John wrote concerning what Jesus had accomplished in the 3 1/2 short years of his ministry, John 21:25, "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the WORLD itself could not contain the books that should be written, amen." So, how smart is even the smartest of us? Answer, not very.

And so you think that man knows the entirety of the Son's relationship with the Father from etrnity past to eternity future? Nonsense!!!!!!!!!!!

[NeutralZone]

Explain to me what you think this 3 in 1 God means? I will wait for your response.

Come on now, placebofactor. What else could I possibly be referring to besides Christendom's trinity god in which the Father (Jehovah), the Son (Jesus Christ) and Jehovah's Holy Spriit are supposedly three different persons who are co-equal and co-eternal and combined into a single god? In fact, you used part of the Trinitarian argument in the title of your thread when you claimed the Father and the Son are equal. Scripture says they are not.

The reason I ask is that there is another side to the 3-1. Some believe the Father is Jesus and is the Holy Spirit, but that's an incorrect teaching.

How I look at the Trinity is, there is the Father, who sent his Son, who sent the Holy Spirit. They are of one mind and one purpose, one end goal for us. The three make up the Godhead. If we as Christians want to know the Father, we had better know the Son.

There are no scriptures in support of any of the various versions of Christendom's Trinity. So how you look at the Trinity is irrelevant. You are, in effect, worshipping a non-existent god. That behavior is known as paganism.

[placebofactor]

Explain to me what you think this 3 in 1 God means? I will wait for your response.

Come on now, placebofactor. What else could I possibly be referring to besides Christendom's trinity god in which the Father (Jehovah), the Son (Jesus Christ) and Jehovah's Holy Spriit are supposedly three different persons who are co-equal and co-eternal and combined into a single god? In fact, you used part of the Trinitarian argument in the title of your thread when you claimed the Father and the Son are equal. Scripture says they are not.

The reason I ask is that there is another side to the 3-1. Some believe the Father is Jesus and is the Holy Spirit, but that's an incorrect teaching.

How I look at the Trinity is, there is the Father, who sent his Son, who sent the Holy Spirit. They are of one mind and one purpose, one end goal for us. The three make up the Godhead. If we as Christians want to know the Father, we had better know the Son.

There are no scriptures in support of any of the various versions of Christendom's Trinity. So how you look at the Trinity is irrelevant. You are, in effect, worshipping a non-existent god. That behavior is known as paganism.

If you would like to have an HONEST discussion on the subject, I would be more than happy to accommodate you. I use the King James Bible and refuse to use these useless Bibles that came out after 1950, they having had four and five new copyrights since their first editions. From copyright to copyright, they dont agree with themselves, especially the N.W.T.

The doctrine of the Trinity is too important to millions of Christians around the world, and I will not use what I call corrupted correspondence to dirty the word of God. If the King James is okay, we can begin with,
2 Corinthians 13:14, The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God (the Father) and the communion (fellowship) of the Holy Ghost, be with you. If not okay, we can call it a day. And don't call those of us who believe and can prove the doctrine of the Trinity "Pagan."

[NeutralZone]

The reason I ask is that there is another side to the 3-1. Some believe the Father is Jesus and is the Holy Spirit, but that's an incorrect teaching.

How I look at the Trinity is, there is the Father, who sent his Son, who sent the Holy Spirit. They are of one mind and one purpose, one end goal for us. The three make up the Godhead. If we as Christians want to know the Father, we had better know the Son.

There are no scriptures in support of any of the various versions of Christendom's Trinity. So how you look at the Trinity is irrelevant. You are, in effect, worshipping a non-existent god. That behavior is known as paganism.

If you would like to have an HONEST discussion on the subject, I would be more than happy to accommodate you. I use the King James Bible and refuse to use these useless Bibles that came out after 1950, they having had four and five new copyrights since their first editions. From copyright to copyright, they dont agree with themselves, especially the N.W.T.

It doesn't matter which version of the Bible is used, they all say the same thing when one pays attention to context (surrounding words, verses, and chapters).

FYI: The King James Bible is nothing more than an English translation that was published in 1611. Nothing more, nothing less. And the KJV contains fabricated verses not found in other Bible translations. So if you think the KJV is the gold standard, I've got news for you.

[NeutralZone]

The doctrine of the Trinity is too important to millions of Christians around the world, and I will not use what I call corrupted correspondence to dirty the word of God. If the King James is okay, we can begin with,
2 Corinthians 13:14, The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God (the Father) and the communion (fellowship) of the Holy Ghost, be with you. If not okay, we can call it a day. And don't call those of us who believe and can prove the doctrine of the Trinity "Pagan."

Regardless of which version of the Bible you use, there are no scriptures contained therein that supports Christendom's Trinity. Christendom's Trinity is defined as follows:

"There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the maker and preserver of all things both visible and indivisible. And in unity of this Godhead there be three persons, of ONE substance, power, and ETERNITY; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost."

http://www.sevenwholedays.org/2011/03/1 ... irtyni.htm

Notice the portions that I bolded in red. Those are specifically contradicted by scripture.

[Capbook]

The Father's relationship with his Son is a matter between them, it's no concern of ours. What matters to us, is our relationship with Jesus, nothing else. And as far as I can see, we had better honor him as we would honor the Father. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit. He is our Redeemer, He is our Mediator, He gave his life for us, He will be our Judge, and He will be our husband. These are the things you need to consider, nothing more. You know what happens when a wife belittles her husband, sort of like how you downgrade your future husband: Divorce! You know what happened to the Jews when the LORD Jesus divorced them? REJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, it is our concern, placebofactor. Very much so. Jesus Christ, who established Christianity, made it abundantly clear that his followers must take in accurate knowledge of Jehovah the Father and of Jesus Christ the Son. Without accurate knowledge, people end up worshipping Christendom's non-existent 3-in-1 god that is found nowhere in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. The result? They lose out on everlasting life. Below is what Jesus said in prayer to his heavenly father, Almighty God Jehovah.

John 17:3
This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Explain to me what you think this 3 in 1 God means? I will wait for your response.

Come on now, placebofactor. What else could I possibly be referring to besides Christendom's trinity god in which the Father (Jehovah), the Son (Jesus Christ) and Jehovah's Holy Spriit are supposedly three different persons who are co-equal and co-eternal and combined into a single god? In fact, you used part of the Trinitarian argument in the title of your thread when you claimed the Father and the Son are equal. Scripture says they are not.

I beg to differ that the Holy Spirit is just the force of the Father, as in Mat 12:31-32, speaks of any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven. If one blasphemes the Father (Rev13:6) and will be forgiven, why to blaspheme the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven? That implied that the Holy Spirit isn't just the force of the Father but a separate distinct person of the Trinity. Bible lexicon defined "blasphemes", in Greek "- blasph"me" as to speak of impious irreverence to God.

And in verse 32, whoever speaks a word against (blasphemes) the Son of Man shall also be forgiven, and as Mounce defined that term it as an irreverence to God, to me that supports the concepts of Trinity mentioned in Mat 28:19.


G987 (Mounce)
- blasph"me
34x: to defame, revile, slander, Mat 27:39; to speak of God or divine things in terms of impious irreverence, to blaspheme, Mat 9:3; Mat 26:65.

Mat 12:31 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Mat 12:32 "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven..

[placebofactor]

The Father's relationship with his Son is a matter between them, it's no concern of ours. What matters to us, is our relationship with Jesus, nothing else. And as far as I can see, we had better honor him as we would honor the Father. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit. He is our Redeemer, He is our Mediator, He gave his life for us, He will be our Judge, and He will be our husband. These are the things you need to consider, nothing more. You know what happens when a wife belittles her husband, sort of like how you downgrade your future husband: Divorce! You know what happened to the Jews when the LORD Jesus divorced them? REJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, it is our concern, placebofactor. Very much so. Jesus Christ, who established Christianity, made it abundantly clear that his followers must take in accurate knowledge of Jehovah the Father and of Jesus Christ the Son. Without accurate knowledge, people end up worshipping Christendom's non-existent 3-in-1 god that is found nowhere in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. The result? They lose out on everlasting life. Below is what Jesus said in prayer to his heavenly father, Almighty God Jehovah.

John 17:3
This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Explain to me what you think this 3 in 1 God means? I will wait for your response.

Come on now, placebofactor. What else could I possibly be referring to besides Christendom's trinity god in which the Father (Jehovah), the Son (Jesus Christ) and Jehovah's Holy Spriit are supposedly three different persons who are co-equal and co-eternal and combined into a single god? In fact, you used part of the Trinitarian argument in the title of your thread when you claimed the Father and the Son are equal. Scripture says they are not.

I beg to differ that the Holy Spirit is just the force of the Father, as in Mat 12:31-32, speaks of any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven. If one blasphemes the Father (Rev13:6) and will be forgiven, why to blaspheme the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven? That implied that the Holy Spirit isn't just the force of the Father but a separate distinct person of the Trinity. Bible lexicon defined "blasphemes", in Greek "- blasph"me" as to speak of impious irreverence to God.

And in verse 32, whoever speaks a word against (blasphemes) the Son of Man shall also be forgiven, and as Mounce defined that term it as an irreverence to God, to me that supports the concepts of Trinity mentioned in Mat 28:19.


G987 (Mounce)
- blasph"me
34x: to defame, revile, slander, Mat 27:39; to speak of God or divine things in terms of impious irreverence, to blaspheme, Mat 9:3; Mat 26:65.

Mat 12:31 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Mat 12:32 "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven..

If a person who claims to know the Scriptures and doesn't understand the difference between the Holy Spirit being called "He" not "It", or by changing "He" to "That one," they don't need to be teaching. The corrupt N.W.T. changed "He" to "that one" the only Bible in the history of the world that changes "He" to "that one." The Watchtower rejects 1 John 5:7 because it's only in a few manuscripts, yet they change He to "that one" and it's not in any manuscripts. They also changed John 1:1, another intentional corruption. And they add "Other" in Colossians 1:16, to strip Jesus of his divinity, claiming he was created. Don't talk about blasphemy to me, you'd better read Revelation 22 about adding and removing words from God's word.